Yea that's the bottom line isn't it. Putin and his ilk are victims and justified sending an army into Ukrainian territory killing tens of thousands.
Mulla*s Iran, Hamas are victims too and their behavior should be explained and judged in that context only. Sure.
Heck, even with a bit of creative moral arm twisting Hitler was a victim and behaved accordingly!
Many if not most Western voices, including all those here on OTNOT, admit West is not without sin. On the contrary. Have you paid attention at all? Many crimes, genocides, bloody colonial histories, racist mindset. Confessing to own sins is very important fiber in Judeo-Christian culture, as well as in secular science oriented society where facts and truth are extremely important.
As often has been the case, West was first, most succesful in bad as well as good stuff. Rulers of Heaven and Hell. Nothing to be proud of, a moral zero sum game.
Noddy not long ago labeled your way of thinking as very creepy, which is exactly right. You are a harmless individual talking nonsense on OTNOT, living in Canada and clearly a nice guy, but you think exactly like the nutter Mull*hs and their military juntas now in power. That needs to be exposed.
While back every morning to work I met this young Iranian very talented art student, photographer. Very friendly nice guy! Often small talk about whatever. During covid he surprised me when he showed me a picture and youtube video, that according to him proved that those face masks to protect from covid where injected with nanotech little robots that once inhaled, would crawl into your brain and manipulate, spy on your thinking.
On the video, you could see some nematode like little worm moving in a white fabric, that may or may not have been from a mask. So I suggested maybe it was not a face mask, just some nematode or other organism. Maybe a doctored video, a prank...
But nothing could convince him that this was not some nano tech spy operation by an evil government or "entity". He made up his mind and nothing would change it.
Because I sometimes read thoughts on people's forehead, ie know what they gonna say before they open their mouth, he was about to claim Zionists were behind it, but refrained from saying it.
Don't wanna commit same sins you do by stereotyping people and lumping them together in convenient boxes, but I'm told that Iranians are extremely vulnerable to buying into conspiracy theories, easily losing track of causal reality, start talking nonsense and shooting themselves in the foot.
On postive side and in times of peace, this connects with long history of Persian creativity and achievements in arts and science. Imaginative powers to admire and appreciate! In times of violent monkeytown conflict however, Iranian mindset becomes childlike anger tantrum, making the wrong choices. Sort of PTSD.
If the West f*cked you up violently, my sincere apologies. It should not have happened. But no apologies will change your mind.
Instead what we get from the Iranian tantrum toddlers:
Violent hate campaign against Israeli Ashkenazim Jews, supporting terrorists who dont wan't to compromise and just kill Jews, eradicate the Jewish state. These are very bad choices by these quasi Persian bollucks Mull*hs. Maybe it's the need for self-harm, self flagellation Shia Islam is known for that explains this behavior. To be in pain also helps to know you exist, and therefor matter.
When Cyrus Mahdi III returns, he will clean out the barn, starting in Iran and get these Muslim theocrats and their junta rocket boys out of business, restore mosque-state separation Persian style. Condemn openly all violent Muslim factions as well as the Mad Mooshe gvt of Israel. Work together with anyone everywhere who simply rejects all violence, without victimhood excuses starting today.
To save the future from the claws of the past. That is the real battle going on. God, as a proxy of the future, knocking on our doors.
The U.K.
Re: The U.K.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11758
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The U.K.
- 1.png (310.5 KiB) Viewed 114 times
Israel thought is "immune" to attacks , thought US backing is a deterrent ..
Iran by sending those 400 drones and missiles, pored that Israeli perceived immunity into toilet and flashed .. now that Lebanese guy raining missiles on northern Israel and all inhabitants of northern Israel have been evacuated
AND ?
Same idea now with UK and Europe and Poland and Germany with "NATO"
They think NATO is a deferent, Russia would not dare to bomb NATO countries .. Putin now will pore this into toilet and flash
https://www.rt.com/russia/597071-russia ... bassadors/
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Re: The U.K.
Claiming to be willing to retaliate gainst "British targets in Ukraine or elsewhere" is not a very daring and precise statement. More like sending a fart into space and threaten to do retaliation poopoo "somewhere". No lavender! Just be a man and attack a NATO member. See what happens.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11758
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The U.K.
True
Probably this will happen soon .. and we will see what happens (for sure not what you think will happen)
My take is Russia will give the "right" missiles to Houthi (via Mull*hs) and Houthi will hit the NATO "RAF Akrotiri" base in Cyprus .. a Base that supports ongoing operations in the region .. UK Jet fighters from that base operating over ME.
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Re: The U.K.
What will happen is as predicted; this conflict will slowly but steadily escalate until it starts to tip-toe into a WW3 nuclear holocaust. Then ceasefire and negotiations 1st round. Then 5 years after that cold war stabilizes.
Time will resolve final Russia Ukraine borders post-Putin. Just another territorial battle to be added to an already huge list of same worldwide last 10K years. Welcome to monkeytown, nothing unique about all this.
Risk of unintended nuclear escalation very real. Then we are all toast, and the Lawrd probably wonder what the hell he was thinking creating a monkey smart enough to develop nukes but still too monkey-like behaving any different from sticks and stones apes.
What should have happened, is KGB rat Putin be handled with much less care than the sub-realistic Messianic West did. More appropriate would have been a quick no-nonsense approach:
https://youtu.be/DtmY0hedXxY?si=DMdsFPrAwOCCckcM
Time will resolve final Russia Ukraine borders post-Putin. Just another territorial battle to be added to an already huge list of same worldwide last 10K years. Welcome to monkeytown, nothing unique about all this.
Risk of unintended nuclear escalation very real. Then we are all toast, and the Lawrd probably wonder what the hell he was thinking creating a monkey smart enough to develop nukes but still too monkey-like behaving any different from sticks and stones apes.
What should have happened, is KGB rat Putin be handled with much less care than the sub-realistic Messianic West did. More appropriate would have been a quick no-nonsense approach:
https://youtu.be/DtmY0hedXxY?si=DMdsFPrAwOCCckcM
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11758
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The U.K.
Parodite wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 9:02 am What will happen is as predicted; this conflict will slowly but steadily escalate until it starts to tip-toe into a WW3 nuclear holocaust. Then ceasefire and negotiations 1st round. Then 5 years after that cold war stabilizes.
Time will resolve final Russia Ukraine borders post-Putin. Just another territorial battle to be added to an already huge list of same worldwide last 10K years. Welcome to monkeytown, nothing unique about all this.
Risk of unintended nuclear escalation very real. Then we are all toast, and the Lawrd probably wonder what the hell he was thinking creating a monkey smart enough to develop nukes but still too monkey-like behaving any different from sticks and stones apes.
What should have happened, is KGB rat Putin be handled with much less care than the sub-realistic Messianic West did. More appropriate would have been a quick no-nonsense approach:
https://youtu.be/DtmY0hedXxY?si=DMdsFPrAwOCCckcM
Yes, something like that
But why all this ?
Russia, Putin, all was asking, letter sent to US and EU pre Ukraine incursion, was : "let's have a comprehensive security agreement" .. security for all.
West said NO
West thought Russia will collapse within month, Rubble will become toilet paper, Russian economy wiped out
Mull*hs saw opportunity of century, shook hand with Russia and China .. mother of all unintended consequences
Now table turned
Western Ukraine fiasco was the best think could have happened for Mull*hs .. could anybody imagine 500 drones, Ballistic and cruise missiles over Israel worldwide podcast on "live TV" ! ! !
West making one mistake after another .. Bush bringing "liberal democracy" to Afghanistan (after 25 yrs , 2 Trillion $$ , replacing Taliban with Taliban), Iraq "Abu Gharib' fiasco, Syria freedom fighters beheading Westerner on live TV and now Ukraine leading to Iran's meteoric rise.
Now UK (and France) suggesting Ukraine hits inside Russia
Russia would hit NATO, many choices where to hit.
Turkey opposition petitioning Turkey leave NATO.
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Re: The U.K.
HP, you keep defending the indefensible.
USSR fell apart. I need to ask, before continue wasting more time on you: this was a good thing? Or you side with thug Putin who considered it a disaster and wants to restore as much as possible?
NATO never threatened Russia proper. Just wants make sure that dangerous Russian USSR nostalgia-maniacs, like Putin, leave those former USSR satellite states alone, that don't want to be part of any USSR or be dominated, bullied and raped by Putin’s Russia. Never again. That desire is real, and fair enough?
As for Ukraine, your hero Putin was always clear that any security agreement would mean no autonomy for Ukraine. But that is up to the Ukrainians to decide. Not to rapist Vlad.
Mistake of West re Ukraine is exactly the same as Israel Gaza-Westbank. To leave borders disputed, ambiguous, with a gaping power vacuum staring you in the face, inviting the worst psychos to jump into it and cause future wars, big wars, world wars even.
West should have said to Ukraine early on in 1991, either of these two:
"Sorry, we will never want you to become EU member or NATO member. Nor will we defend you against Russian incursions, effort to control territory within the bounds of current Ukraine."
OR
"We support Ukrainian independence as an autonomous country with its own army and unnegotiable borders. This would be meaningless without security guarantees, necessitating immediate membership of EU and NATO tomorrow. After that, make sure Russia doesn't needlessly feel threatened by Ukrainian independence and a full alliance with the West; help Russia relaaaax, reassuring NATO will never threaten Russian integrity, co-operate peacefully and productively as neighbors. Closer co-operation between Western Europe and Russia always possible! Remove NATO missiles away from Russian borders. Also Russia needs to feel safe, of course. We all have that right and should feel safe."
Blabla etc etc
I prefer the second option had happened, but would have been fine with the first.
In both cases, final borders, in whatever configuration, would quickly have been established. As a first priority. It didn't happen; EU techno-burocrat autists demanding Ukraine first become a "good boy", reduce corruption, obediently follow arrogant diktats of Brussels. Postponing and postponing; biggest mistake after becoming dependent on Russian oil and gas.
The worst case scenario happened: delusional West created an ambiguous, non-final solution, a serious power vacuum with only a matter of time the usual psycho suspects would jump right into and destroy a fragile new peace post WW-2.
What happened to the West, that it keeps jumping on bandwagons making naive choices, leaving very dangerous power vacuums in explosive areas, that will inevitably lead to even bigger wars? What is that messianic blindness? Deciding to start unthoughtful military operations in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan? Something very wrong with West.
It is the inability, unwillingness to look the 98% chimp in the eye when we gaze into the mirror. Who and what is that? Believing West is superior. West is not.
Believing that once a territorial war starts, those directly involved and paying the price, are or should be open to "fair negotiations". That is silly and borders to the criminally insane.
The mindset that likes to think that after blood starts to be spilled, negotiations, reason, "fairness", historical narratives about "legal rights" could still make a difference: they won't HP. Your and my deliberations are meaningless. Raw bloody powers are going to decide. Not obvious who will win and lose. Biology has already taken over. Planet Ape rules.
All territorial confrontations follow the rules of monkey town.
You are in good company however, so don't take it too personal.
Most people involved in any and all sides suffer same illusion, believing they are high above monkey reality. As a Westerner, a Jew, a Muslim, a Persian, a rational atheist, a Han Chinese... everybody. All creating grotesque fantasy narratives who they are and why. Thin veneers, that once vital territory is under threat will evaporate immediately.
I for sure will commit "war crimes" if my loved ones get hurt or worse. As a Palestinian or Israeli, it makes no difference.
Only difference is that I'm an honest chimp and don't expect nor demand anybody being much more than that. But, I will never challenge any territorial border, if, when and wherever they exist.
Borders are never "fair". They came about by thousands and thousands who spilled their blood. They are monuments of war, to be respected and cherished. But also sleeping dragons...don't ever wake them up, again. Always the same end result if you do: another hellish bloody war.
This is the only reality that unites us. We are monkeys with very advanced high-tech weapons at our disposal. A very dangerous situation, seriously.
But, with these 2% extra intelligence we can do it: leave fragile borders that exist alone. Become neighbors, respect fences. Safely coexist in our human neighborhood.
West, but not only West, very guilty of disrespecting borders. Bombing Western values into other societies, big mistake. Stupid. A war crime. Thousands died unnecessarily.
Live by example if one wishes others to follow. Do better than the West, please... I beg you. Or the Persian Promise will die out forever.
Cyrus III
Whose holiday is over. Time to launch that rocket.
USSR fell apart. I need to ask, before continue wasting more time on you: this was a good thing? Or you side with thug Putin who considered it a disaster and wants to restore as much as possible?
NATO never threatened Russia proper. Just wants make sure that dangerous Russian USSR nostalgia-maniacs, like Putin, leave those former USSR satellite states alone, that don't want to be part of any USSR or be dominated, bullied and raped by Putin’s Russia. Never again. That desire is real, and fair enough?
As for Ukraine, your hero Putin was always clear that any security agreement would mean no autonomy for Ukraine. But that is up to the Ukrainians to decide. Not to rapist Vlad.
Mistake of West re Ukraine is exactly the same as Israel Gaza-Westbank. To leave borders disputed, ambiguous, with a gaping power vacuum staring you in the face, inviting the worst psychos to jump into it and cause future wars, big wars, world wars even.
West should have said to Ukraine early on in 1991, either of these two:
"Sorry, we will never want you to become EU member or NATO member. Nor will we defend you against Russian incursions, effort to control territory within the bounds of current Ukraine."
OR
"We support Ukrainian independence as an autonomous country with its own army and unnegotiable borders. This would be meaningless without security guarantees, necessitating immediate membership of EU and NATO tomorrow. After that, make sure Russia doesn't needlessly feel threatened by Ukrainian independence and a full alliance with the West; help Russia relaaaax, reassuring NATO will never threaten Russian integrity, co-operate peacefully and productively as neighbors. Closer co-operation between Western Europe and Russia always possible! Remove NATO missiles away from Russian borders. Also Russia needs to feel safe, of course. We all have that right and should feel safe."
Blabla etc etc
I prefer the second option had happened, but would have been fine with the first.
In both cases, final borders, in whatever configuration, would quickly have been established. As a first priority. It didn't happen; EU techno-burocrat autists demanding Ukraine first become a "good boy", reduce corruption, obediently follow arrogant diktats of Brussels. Postponing and postponing; biggest mistake after becoming dependent on Russian oil and gas.
The worst case scenario happened: delusional West created an ambiguous, non-final solution, a serious power vacuum with only a matter of time the usual psycho suspects would jump right into and destroy a fragile new peace post WW-2.
What happened to the West, that it keeps jumping on bandwagons making naive choices, leaving very dangerous power vacuums in explosive areas, that will inevitably lead to even bigger wars? What is that messianic blindness? Deciding to start unthoughtful military operations in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan? Something very wrong with West.
It is the inability, unwillingness to look the 98% chimp in the eye when we gaze into the mirror. Who and what is that? Believing West is superior. West is not.
Believing that once a territorial war starts, those directly involved and paying the price, are or should be open to "fair negotiations". That is silly and borders to the criminally insane.
The mindset that likes to think that after blood starts to be spilled, negotiations, reason, "fairness", historical narratives about "legal rights" could still make a difference: they won't HP. Your and my deliberations are meaningless. Raw bloody powers are going to decide. Not obvious who will win and lose. Biology has already taken over. Planet Ape rules.
All territorial confrontations follow the rules of monkey town.
You are in good company however, so don't take it too personal.
Most people involved in any and all sides suffer same illusion, believing they are high above monkey reality. As a Westerner, a Jew, a Muslim, a Persian, a rational atheist, a Han Chinese... everybody. All creating grotesque fantasy narratives who they are and why. Thin veneers, that once vital territory is under threat will evaporate immediately.
I for sure will commit "war crimes" if my loved ones get hurt or worse. As a Palestinian or Israeli, it makes no difference.
Only difference is that I'm an honest chimp and don't expect nor demand anybody being much more than that. But, I will never challenge any territorial border, if, when and wherever they exist.
Borders are never "fair". They came about by thousands and thousands who spilled their blood. They are monuments of war, to be respected and cherished. But also sleeping dragons...don't ever wake them up, again. Always the same end result if you do: another hellish bloody war.
This is the only reality that unites us. We are monkeys with very advanced high-tech weapons at our disposal. A very dangerous situation, seriously.
But, with these 2% extra intelligence we can do it: leave fragile borders that exist alone. Become neighbors, respect fences. Safely coexist in our human neighborhood.
West, but not only West, very guilty of disrespecting borders. Bombing Western values into other societies, big mistake. Stupid. A war crime. Thousands died unnecessarily.
Live by example if one wishes others to follow. Do better than the West, please... I beg you. Or the Persian Promise will die out forever.
Cyrus III
Whose holiday is over. Time to launch that rocket.
Deep down I'm very superficial