Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2012/0615-rio2 ... z1y0Et9Ya2In an symbolic protest of the giant Belo Monte Dam, Friday morning some 300 locals dug a channel in an earthen dam that blocks a portion of the Xingu River and serves as the first step for the controversial hydroelectric project, reports Amazon Watch.
Belo Monte Dam
Belo Monte Dam
http://news.mongabay.com/2012/0615-rio2 ... otest.html
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Belo Monte Dam
You're against people fighting for their ancestral homeland against the march of Progress? Or you are incensed that they are destroying the lives of these peoples without consideration?anderson wrote:Oh FFS...
Which side are you for genuflect saking?
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Progress comes and will come. Electrification is progress. In a country like Brazil, hydro is the most no-brainer choice imaginable for power development. These folks may not get that yet, but it is.
My perspective is that this is like protesting gravity. Every river valley there is some people's "ancestral home," just as probably every valley on earth is someone's ancestral homeland. If you take it too seriously it never ends and everyone ends up living in the trees dying of preventable diseases. I suppose it is a natural human reaction what they are doing, and they can do their song and dance, but in the end it is a pointless exercise. The stream moves on with you or without you.
My perspective is that this is like protesting gravity. Every river valley there is some people's "ancestral home," just as probably every valley on earth is someone's ancestral homeland. If you take it too seriously it never ends and everyone ends up living in the trees dying of preventable diseases. I suppose it is a natural human reaction what they are doing, and they can do their song and dance, but in the end it is a pointless exercise. The stream moves on with you or without you.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
It's not a matter of 'not getting it'. It's a matter of, "My home is being put under water."anderson wrote:Progress comes and will come. Electrification is progress. In a country like Brazil, hydro is the most no-brainer choice imaginable for power development. These folks may not get that yet, but it is.
Sure. But I have sympathy for them, and it's an interesting cause. Not my issue obviously, but worth noting.My perspective is that this is like protesting gravity. Every river valley there is some people's "ancestral home," just as probably every valley on earth is someone's ancestral homeland. If you take it too seriously it never ends and everyone ends up living in the trees dying of preventable diseases. I suppose it is a natural human reaction what they are doing, and they can do their song and dance, but in the end it is a pointless exercise. The stream moves on with you or without you.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Remember my part about the "Just because one is enticed by such prospects doesn't mean one has to be blinded by it" ?anderson wrote:Progress comes and will come. Electrification is progress. In a country like Brazil, hydro is the most no-brainer choice imaginable for power development. These folks may not get that yet, but it is.
My perspective is that this is like protesting gravity. Every river valley there is some people's "ancestral home," just as probably every valley on earth is someone's ancestral homeland. If you take it too seriously it never ends and everyone ends up living in the trees dying of preventable diseases. I suppose it is a natural human reaction what they are doing, and they can do their song and dance, but in the end it is a pointless exercise. The stream moves on with you or without you.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Yeah, I remember. Off the mark then, off the mark by another factor of magnitude yet now.
Protesting a power dam in a developing nation is stupid. I'm sure the government is compensating and relocating these people. I can sympathize with the quaint, old fashioned romantic connection of a person and their family to one particular ancestral clod of earth over all others, but what to say. If you want to develop a country and its people, these sorts of things need to happen.
Protesting a power dam in a developing nation is stupid. I'm sure the government is compensating and relocating these people. I can sympathize with the quaint, old fashioned romantic connection of a person and their family to one particular ancestral clod of earth over all others, but what to say. If you want to develop a country and its people, these sorts of things need to happen.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
It's also yet another great cash extortion opportunity for the Greenpeace type of NGOs.anderson wrote:Yeah, I remember. Off the mark then, off the mark by another factor of magnitude yet now.
Protesting a power dam in a developing nation is stupid. I'm sure the government is compensating and relocating these people. I can sympathize with the quaint, old fashioned romantic connection of a person and their family to one particular ancestral clod of earth over all others, but what to say. If you want to develop a country and its people, these sorts of things need to happen.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Very bourgeois way of looking at it anderson. These people cannot be compensated. Losing one's ancestral homeland isn't like losing your cul de sac to an on ramp. Though regardless of circumstances, compensation is never a reasonable value. When you get compensates for your home when an on ramp comes, it is fair market value based on the value post on ramp announcement.
It isn't stupid to protest the loss of your home so that people in a city somewhere far away can have electricity.
Is it stupid of me to want to protest hydrfracking because it threatens NYC's water supply?
It isn't stupid to protest the loss of your home so that people in a city somewhere far away can have electricity.
Is it stupid of me to want to protest hydrfracking because it threatens NYC's water supply?
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Are you using "bourgeois" as a derogatory term?Enki wrote:Very bourgeois way of looking at it anderson. . . .
How does it do that?Enki wrote: . . .
Is it stupid of me to want to protest hydrfracking because it threatens NYC's water supply?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Bourgeois? Quite the opposite. I support the physical economic development of the people of Brazil. Personally, I think it's pretty bourgeois elitist for educated, wealthy liberal environmentalists in America who couldn't do without electricity for 5 minutes protesting about developments in a poorer country that would give others the same technological infrastructure they take for granted. And all because of some Romantic Roussean "noble savage" sentimentality. About as bourgeois as it gets.
Is it stupid for you to protest fraccing in upstate New York?
Well, if you just a priori assume that it is harmful to water supplies, then I guess it would be internally logically consistent for you to protest.
Given the relative lack of scientific evidence to support that assumption, and given that it makes little geologic sense how fraccing miles underground would affect water supplies located within a few hundred yards of the surface however, it wouldn't make much sense to protest it, no.
Is it stupid for you to protest fraccing in upstate New York?
Well, if you just a priori assume that it is harmful to water supplies, then I guess it would be internally logically consistent for you to protest.
Given the relative lack of scientific evidence to support that assumption, and given that it makes little geologic sense how fraccing miles underground would affect water supplies located within a few hundred yards of the surface however, it wouldn't make much sense to protest it, no.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Belo Monte Dam
The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
-
- Posts: 2206
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:59 pm
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Well considering that they don't have electricity yet........anderson wrote:The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
Been busy doing stuff
Time makes ancient good uncouth . . .
anderson wrote:. . the quaint, old fashioned romantic connection of a person and their family to one particular ancestral clod of earth over all others, but what to say. If you want to develop a country and its people, these sorts of things need to happen.
We get this kind of sentimentalist nonsense all the time up here. Nor does it have anything to do with people being displaced or traditional lifestyles disappearing. It's about one's perspective on the future.
"The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time."
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
—John Calvin
--- Richard Nixon
******************
"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."
—John Calvin
Re: Belo Monte Dam
if they had electricity, they could get Dick Cheney to bid blowing up that levy.....Hoosiernorm wrote:Well considering that they don't have electricity yet........anderson wrote:The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Ha! One of those annoying catch 22's life throws at you. Modern technology makes Luddite advocacy so much more effective.Hoosiernorm wrote:Well considering that they don't have electricity yet........anderson wrote:The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
Re: Belo Monte Dam
Amen brother. Especially from a distance of 500 miles or more.....anderson wrote:Ha! One of those annoying catch 22's life throws at you. Modern technology makes Luddite advocacy so much more effective.Hoosiernorm wrote:Well considering that they don't have electricity yet........anderson wrote:The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
As long as I am comfortable....... I can advocate ______ for THEM way over there. No skin off my nose......
Fascinating to see how many viewpoints a single picture can generate.
How do we know that those opposing electricity are not racists? Are they giving up usage of electricity in their own lives?
Are they premptively preventing future economic or military or resource competition from those who desire modernization?
Do the people on the dam represent the 1% or the 42% or the 99% of the locals?
Would real oppressors airdrop shovels or dynamite or ipods to those dam people?
New heartfelt motto: "SAVE THE DAM PEOPLE!!!!!"
- monster_gardener
- Posts: 5334
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
- Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........
The Dam People......... Are Busy Beavers......
Thank you Very Much for your post, Simple Minded.Simple Minded wrote:Amen brother. Especially from a distance of 500 miles or more.....anderson wrote:Ha! One of those annoying catch 22's life throws at you. Modern technology makes Luddite advocacy so much more effective.Hoosiernorm wrote:Well considering that they don't have electricity yet........anderson wrote:The website however is operated by American environmentalists though.Enki wrote:The protestors who dug that trench are the people who are being displaced.
As long as I am comfortable....... I can advocate ______ for THEM way over there. No skin off my nose......
Fascinating to see how many viewpoints a single picture can generate.
How do we know that those opposing electricity are not racists? Are they giving up usage of electricity in their own lives?
Are they premptively preventing future economic or military or resource competition from those who desire modernization?
Do the people on the dam represent the 1% or the 42% or the 99% of the locals?
Would real oppressors airdrop shovels or dynamite or ipods to those dam people?
New heartfelt motto: "SAVE THE DAM PEOPLE!!!!!"
Recalling Hiero's Journey.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_E ... ro_Desteen
Here they are.........New heartfelt motto: "SAVE THE DAM PEOPLE!!!!!"
AwjqVvHXDco
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light