The settlers are still a minority in Israel, and so far only 6 % of West Bank is stolen by settlers, and thus they can be pulled back just like Ariel Sharon (the conservative Israeli leader) pulled back the settlements in Gaza.Ibrahim wrote:Yes, Israel rewards collaborators. This is not unprecedented, nor related to "Original Palestinian Jews in the 19th Century."TurkishJew wrote:The reason the Druze decided to cast their lot with the Israelis is because they are a sect that Arabs discriminate against. It is possible that the Druze pilot may have flown in some air strikes not only in Lebanon against Hezbollah, but even against Hamas in Gaza.
The Circassians are also in good shape in Israel, and they too decided to cast their lot with the Israelis, as they find more freedom in Israel, even though unlike the Druze, the Circassians are officially considered Muslim by the Arabs.
It does not show that at all. It shows that the Israelis will reward those who help them seize and then defend Palestinian Arab land. Siding with and elevating minority groups against the majority population was a standard tactic of British colonialism for 200 years.The fact that many non-Jews in Israel, especially the pure-Muslim Circassians and the quasi-Muslim Druze cult are not discriminated like the Palestinians is a very important thing about Israel. It shows that if the Palestinians show more tolerance, the Israelis will also reciprocate.
Indeed, the Settlers will attack a Palestinian Christian as easily as a Palestinian Muslim. I fail to see the benefits of this.As a digression that is not irrelevant to show that Israel is not anti-Muslim,
As for Israel rewarding collaborators, neither the Circassians nor the Druze are Palestinians. They are not even Arabs. So it is hard to call them collaborators.
But after all these digressions which are my fault, let me remind you that the main point of this thread is the Original Palestinian Jews. The statistics indicate that taking into account the increase in population since the 19th century, there must be close to 100,000 original Palestinian Jews in Israel, who cannot be accused of being outsiders. The point of this thread was to establish some legitimacy for this group. Just in case there is a one-state solution with a Muslim Palestinian majority state that governs all the region, logic and morality dictates that just like the Muslim Palestinians deserve equality, this group of Palestinian Jews will also have the right to fight for equality as much as Palestinians strive for equality. My point was that just in case equality is not given to local Palestinian Jews after the creation of a Palestinian Muslim majority state, then the other possibility would be an armed revolt of the Palestinian Jews, very much like Hamas, given that even tiny city states like Vatican exist as successful independent countries with their own passports and laws. Usually the armed revolt of small minorities is crushed, but sometimes it succeeds and ultimately this revolt can lead to legitimacy, it can even be called Israel II. You keep saying that a one-state solution for the greater Palestine where Jews would be minority subjects is just a hypothesis from my part, and you are correct about the fact that this was a hypothesis, but YOU were also saying: "Why should the Palestinians give up the fight that will lead to their victory to get their land?" Actually, their "victory" would be the materialization of that hypothesis of mine! Actually I do agree that the Palestinians (the Muslim majority) can and should get their land, but the problem is that some of the land is also Jewish-Palestinian, so when the Muslim Palestinians get their land, their land should not be all the land. The whole argument started when you said that all of Israel in any form is illegitimate, and that even the small minority cannot declare independence in their enclaves, since in your view the whole region belongs to the majority Palestinians and that the Jewish Palestinians who live in their own enclaves must be considered the subjects of the majority rule. This sounds great, except that just in case the majority votes to discriminate against the minority, the minority can sometimes legitimately fight for secession and independence. So one thing leads to another. Nothing is so simple.
Another factor is that during World War II, in addition to Eurpean Jews who were coming to Palestine as refugees, many non-local Arabs were also moving to Palestine from other parts of the Arab World. I will find that article that displays the statistics I am talking about, I temporarily cannot find it again, but if my memory serves, the Arab Muslim population of Palestine during World War II, increased by at least 50 % due to the migration of newcomers from other Arab countries at that time. And if these statistics are correct, then at least half of the current 5 million Palestinians can also be considered outsiders by your reasoning. But because I try to be a nice guy and I am not too avaricious, I never insisted in that those outsider Palestinians are not real legitimate Palestinians, the way you insisted that even the Mizrahi Jews of Israel don't belong there, I just wanted to cut a deal and shrink Israel to borders even smaller than the 1949 boundaries. But you still say that all of Israel under any form is illegitimate, even in the enclaves the ancient 100,000 Ottoman Jews live.
And formerly I did agree with you when you said that since the Mizrahi Jews live Israel as full citizens they should not ask for any compensation from the other Arab countries such as Egpt, Syria, Iraq, Libya etc for the looting of their property etc. But if the Mizrahi Jews are forced to leave Israel after the Palestinian "victory" materializes, then this might cause the Mizrahi Jews to go back to Egypt, Syria, Libya, Iraq, etc, with the intention of taking a revenge of epic proportions not seen in recorded history, since at that time their previous claims may legitimately be revived. So as you can see, your simplistic arguments overlook the fact that everything is interconnected in this world.
Hence, if Palestinians do not recognize the legitimacy of a smaller Israel , in some form, at least in principle, then even a two-state solution will only be a short term truce to prepare for the next war. Thus unless there is compromise from both sides in Palestine, there will be no two-state solution or even a one-state solution, there will only be a zero-world solution.