On the Nature of Things | Forum

France Has Neither Nationalism nor Patriotism
- David P. Goldman

Been a while immersing myself in DPGs meanderings. A good old Spenglerian mix of facts and fiction with the ever returning theme:

Euro-crypto-pagans, please don't try emulate the Chosen People! The inner pagan-beast will always take over and plunge y'all into war as usual. You are setting yourselves up for failure, loosing the will to live and pro-create!

Parodite wrote:France Has Neither Nationalism nor Patriotism
- David P. Goldman

Been a while immersing myself in DPGs meanderings. A good old Spenglerian mix of facts and fiction with the ever returning theme:

Euro-crypto-pagans, please don't try emulate the Chosen People! The inner pagan-beast will always take over and plunge y'all into war as usual. You are setting yourselves up for failure, loosing the will to live and pro-create!

Haven't read a Goldman essay in years. Its amazing how little he has changed and how he always makes the exact same handful of references.


Perhaps "Europeans used to be willing to kill and die in this list of horrible and pointless wars and now they aren't!" isn't making the point he thinks it is.

you are all selling euopreans short.

its only been a couple of generations since they brutally slaughtered 10-30% of the male population, it usually takes atleast 3-4 generations before the lessons learnt by great great grandad are meaningless.

I have full faith they will return to business as usual soon enough , history says ~ 100 years of peace is about as good as they can manage.

Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

The desire by various tribes to dominate the neighborhood is as old as Europe itself. The Roman Empire was successful for a while but most attempts died a rather quick death in the next round of territorial wars. The current attempt that goes by the name EU/United States of Europe may be the first to fail without actual red meat war. As such it could be called a success story.

Simple Minded wrote:Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

To have a civilization there must be war. They go hand in hand. Without war there is no reason for people to have a civilization as without war there is no need for the word "Peace"

Doc wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

To have a civilization there must be war. They go hand in hand. Without war there is no reason for people to have a civilization as without war there is no need for the word "Peace"

Strongly disagree. War or peace is a choice made by each individual many times every day.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:

Doc wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

To have a civilization there must be war. They go hand in hand. Without war there is no reason for people to have a civilization as without war there is no need for the word "Peace"

Strongly disagree. War or peace is a choice made by each individual many times every day.

So you are saying that we need civilization, by people who choose peace, for there not to be war in the village ? So what about the other civilization on the other side of the hill?

Doc wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:

Doc wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

To have a civilization there must be war. They go hand in hand. Without war there is no reason for people to have a civilization as without war there is no need for the word "Peace"

Strongly disagree. War or peace is a choice made by each individual many times every day.

So you are saying that we need civilization, by people who choose peace, for there not to be war in the village ? So what about the other civilization on the other side of the hill?

No. We need people who refuse to surrender their personal responsibility for good and evil actionsi to a group or representative.

I tend to agree with spengler in that you mostly need a large group of angry young men who are certain the world is going to be a shitter place anyway, so thusly its worth rolling the dice.

youth unemployment and consecutive generations that miss out on becoming middle class would be my danger signs for europe - some areas appear from the outside to be closer to that than others.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:

Doc wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:

Doc wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Sounds like the age old argument of whether man's default state is one of war or one of peace.

That argument should be settled any day now.....

To have a civilization there must be war. They go hand in hand. Without war there is no reason for people to have a civilization as without war there is no need for the word "Peace"

Strongly disagree. War or peace is a choice made by each individual many times every day.

So you are saying that we need civilization, by people who choose peace, for there not to be war in the village ? So what about the other civilization on the other side of the hill?

No. We need people who refuse to surrender their personal responsibility for good and evil actionsi to a group or representative.

There is much to be surrendered:

“People who eat one other because of the famine are not cannibals. Cannibals are those who don't want to redistribute the church's gold to the starving."

But wait, there is more:
https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/0 ... -evil.html

noddy wrote:I tend to agree with spengler in that you mostly need a large group of angry young men who are certain the world is going to be a shitter place anyway, so thusly its worth rolling the dice.

That is more or less a description of China today. David Goldman is still a China-phile of sorts.

youth unemployment and consecutive generations that miss out on becoming middle class would be my danger signs for europe - some areas appear from the outside to be closer to that than others.

I think it is more than missing out on being middle class. More like lack of self justification for existing. For example the leaders of the 911 hijackings were relatively well off. They were looking for justification to get to paradise. Loving death over life. For a huge amount of young Chinese men, allowing China's 100 years of humiliation to go un-avenged is a fate worse than death.

nar, thats a stretch i think.

it will be xenophobia "with chinese characteristics" and not full blown nihilism and I think they are still fairly optimistic for their continued growth.

jftULfalZf0

Ive had several "laugh at the idiots" type documentaries and current affairs shows making fun of the american preppers movement in the last few years.

I wonder i the french intellectuals will receive the same treatment.

noddy wrote:Ive had several "laugh at the idiots" type documentaries and current affairs shows making fun of the american preppers movement in the last few years.

I wonder i the french intellectuals will receive the same treatment.

These forecasts always remind me of two quotes.

"Each man believes his own life to be the New Year's Eve of time." Which I think summarizes thee never ending appeal of doomer-porn.

"Some ideas are so ridiculous, only an intellectual can believe them." Thomas Sowell

Time to queue up Rachel Carson and Paul Erlich once again......

well, in some sense they are all perfectly correct.

our way of life is dying infront of our eyes, everything we grew up with as core to our social systems is gangrenous or walking dead.

this is somewhat unrelated to the fact that humanity as a whole will keep chugging on, its probably more of a stone age turning into bronze age kind of transition.

im sure their where plenty of end times merchants around at that time.

60OVPcBzWZA

Posted here because....... well.......

https://www.apnews.com/91d9711a9e5549109dd04d264e02b720

it would have been more shocking if he announced they would replace it with a concrete pullup shopping mall.

It's very upsetting but luckily, it seems like most of it was saved from extensive damage. The damage is limited to the roof and [unfortunately] those irreplaceable stained glass windows.

Still doesn't help paranoia levels one bit.

For a man who compared himself to Jupiter, getting to build a great monument under his watch is what the job's all about.

------------------------

The problem is speed. They need to get to work ASAP, at the very least with something temporary, because the structure needs the now lost buttresses and the vault itself was not designed to handle elemental conditions. If they drag their feet, we can be looking at a slow motion catastrophe.

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:For a man who compared himself to Jupiter, getting to build a great monument under his watch is what the job's all about.

------------------------

The problem is speed. They need to get to work ASAP, at the very least with something temporary, because the structure needs the now lost buttresses and the vault itself was not designed to handle elemental conditions. If they drag their feet, we can be looking at a slow motion catastrophe.

you would hope the french government could afford the temporary structures required to prop it up during the rebuild of their national monument )