Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Heracleum Persicum
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Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Identity Conflict

Are we as deeply rooted in the West as most believe ?


'Tug-of-War' of Emotions

Our relationship to the Russians is as ambivalent as our perception of their character. "When it comes to the relations between the Germans and Russians, there is a tug-of-war between profound affection and total aversion," says German novelist Ingo Schulze, author of the critically acclaimed "Simple Stories," a novel that deals with East German identity and German reunification. Russians are sometimes perceived as Ivan the Terrible, as foreign entities, as Asians. Russians scare us, but we also see them as hospitable people. They have an enormous territory, a deep soul and culture -- their country is the country of Tchaikovsky and Tolstoy.

It's thus no wonder that the debate about Russia's role in the Ukraine crisis is more polarizing than any other issue in current German politics. For Germany, the Ukraine crisis is not some distant problem like Syria or Iraq -- it goes right to the core of the question of German identity. Where do we stand when it comes to Russia? And, relatedly: Who are we as Germans? With the threat of a new East-West conflict, this question has regained prominence in Germany and may ultimately force us to reposition ourselves or, at the very least, reaffirm our position in the West.

In recent weeks, an intense and polemical debate has been waged between those tending to sympathize with Russia and those championing a harder line against Moscow. The positions have been extreme, with one controversy breaking out after the other. The louder the voices on the one side are in condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine, the louder those become in arguing for a deeper understanding of a humbled and embattled Russia; as the number of voices pillorying Russia for violating international law in Crimea grows, so do those of Germans raising allegations against the West.

One of the main charges is that the European Union and NATO snubbed Moscow with their recent eastward expansion. Everyone seems to be getting into the debate -- politicians, writers, former chancellors and scientists. Readers, listeners and viewers are sending letters to the editor, posting on Internet forums or calling in to radio or television shows with their opinions.

"Most Germans want to understand Russia's side of things," says Jörg Baberowski, a prominent professor of Eastern European history at Berlin's Humboldt University. Historian Stefan Plaggenborg of the Ruhr University in Bochum has described the sentimental relationship between Germans and Russians as "doting love." But how is it that this connection still exists after two world wars?

Perhaps a man who grew up in East Germany can explain what links Germans and Russians: Thomas Brussig, a novelist from the former East Berlin, says he first got to know Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union when he visited during a book tour. During his stay, he recalls being constantly asked which Russian writers influenced him. Brussig didn't give the obvious answers -- Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky. He instead named a third-rate Soviet writer, Arkady Gaidar. "I did it to exact a bit of revenge and to remind them what imperialists they had been," he says.

Brussig says he has no special attachment to the Russians. He says the only Russian figure he actually views positively is Gorbachev. It was "his vision of a Common European Home that cleared the way for the demolition of the Soviet Union." It was a dream of a Europe without dividing lines. "We shouldn't act as though the border to Asia starts where Lithuania ends," says Brussig. "Europe reaches all the way into the Ural Mountains."

Romanticism and War

There are some obvious explanations for the bond between Germans and Russians: economic interests, a deeply rooted anti-Americanism in both countries on both the left and the right of the political spectrum. But those are only superficial answers -- dig a little deeper, and you'll find two other explanations: Romanticism and the war.

The war explanation is inextricably linked to German guilt. As a country that committed monstrous crimes against the Russians, we sometimes feel the need to be especially generous, even in dealing with Russia's human rights violations. As a result, many Germans feel that Berlin should temper its criticism of Russia and take a moderate position in the Ukraine crisis. It was Germany, after all, that invaded the Soviet Union, killing 25 million people with its racist war of extermination.

Hans-Henning Schröder, a Russia expert at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs describes this as Russophilia and says it is a way of compensating for Germany's Nazi past. Noted German historian Heinrich August Winkler fears Germans have adopted a "pathological learning process."

The question of guilt has created a link between Germans and Russians, but the issue evaporated fairly quickly for the Russians after the war. Unlike the French, Scandinavians and Dutch, the Russians don't tend to name and shame the Germans for crimes committed during the German occupation.

"Those who suffered the most had the least hate for the Germans," says Baberowski, as if the issue of German guilt evaporated in the first frenzy of revenge at the end of the war. He believes it dissipated, at the very latest, after the return of the last prisoners of war to Germany. "The Russians told stories that would make your blood freeze in your veins, but they were never accusatory towards us," says Schulze, who spent several months in St. Petersburg during the 1990s.

Despite the fact that German politicians exploited fears of Russia for many years in the postwar period, the war still connects Germans with Russians today. Our relationship is characterized by the "intimacy of a relationship that arose out of two wars," says Herfried Münkler, a professor of political theory at Humboldt University. He describes the war as an experience shared by both Germans and Russians. He argues that conflict creates a stronger community dynamic than peace -- and that, as a result of the war, Germans learned another thing: to never again attack Russia.

Then, of course, there are Germans' romantic ideas about Russia. The country has always been idealized by Germans. No other country was as thrilled as Germany when glasnost and perestroika ushered in the de-escalation of the East-West conflict. Finally, they felt, it was acceptable for them to love Russia again. In Gorbachev, the good Russian had returned and the Germans saw no reason to continue living in fear of Russia.

Documentary programs about the remote reaches of Siberia and the banks of the Volga River attracted large viewership numbers. In the preceding decades, works by German-language authors like Heinz Konsalik -- whose book "The Doctor of Stalingrad," dealt with German prisoners of war -- and Johannes Simmel -- whose novels delved into Cold War themes -- had been best-sellers.

"The east is a place of longing for the Germans," says Münkler. The expanse and seeming infinity of Russian space has always been the subject of a German obsession for a simpler life, closer to nature and liberated from the constraints of civilization. The millions of Germans that were expelled from Eastern Europe and forced to move to the West after 1945 fostered that feeling. To them, it represented unspoiled nature and their lost homeland.

A Tradition of Anti-Western Sentiment

The flipside to Germany's longing for Russia is its desire to differentiate itself from the West. Fundamental opposition to the West's putative superficiality is seen as being part of the Russian soul: The perceived busyness and money-grubbing ways of the Western man stand in contrast to the East's supposed depth of emotion and spirituality. "When something is romanticized, there is always an antidemocratic streak," says Baberowski. It privileges harmony over conflict, unity over confrontation.

This tradition of anti-Western thinking has a long tradition in Germany. In "Reflections of an Unpolitical Man," written during the First World War, Thomas Mann sought to strongly differentiate Germany from the West, even citing Dostoyevsky in the process. "Being German," Mann wrote, "means culture, soul, freedom, art and not civilization, society, the right to vote, literature." Mann later revised his views, but the essay remains a document for those seeking to locate Germany's position between East and West.

Winkler points to a battle between the era's German intellectuals, which pitted the "Ideas of 1914" -- propagated by Johann Plenge, and emphasizing the "German values" of duty, discipline, law and order, ideas that would later influence National Socialism -- against those of liberté, égalité, fraternité -- which were adopted in 1789 during the French Revolution.

When West Germany became politically part of the West after 1945, the Eastern way of thinking was pushed to the wayside. But Russia remained a country of longing for the East Germans. Münkler believes that the longing for Russia is also a symbol of "what we used to think but are no longer supposed to think."

A Special Role for Germany?

Henrich August Winkler argues that Germany has now arrived at the end of a "long journey to the West." But with the Ukraine crisis and the threat of a revival of the East-West conflict, that arrival now seems less final. Suddenly old questions about a special role for Germany have resurfaced. Of course, no one would throw our membership in the EU or NATO into question, but Germany's special ties to Russia -- which differentiate it from other Western European countries -- have a justifiable effect on our politics.

"The ideology of taking the position in the middle has exhausted itself," Winkler told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung newspaper in a 2011 interview. That was easy to say at a time when the East-West rivalry seemed to have disappeared. Nowadays, that's no longer the case.

If the EU manages to speak with a single voice, it remains possible that the West will be able to achieve something close to a consensus position. But if the conflict with Russia escalates and decisions have to be made about economic sanctions or the stationing of troops, the situation could get very tricky for Germany. It may also force Germans to confront the crucial question of where they stand in their relationship with Russia. It would be a tough question for Germans to dodge, given Germany's current -- voluntary or not -- de facto leadership role in Europe.

In the Ukraine crisis, the stakes for Germany are higher than for perhaps any other country in Europe. So far, Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, have managed, with difficulty, to maintain a unified position, but cracks are already showing. Leaders of the center-left Social Democratic Party (SPD), which implemented Ostpolitik policies of detente with the East under Chancellor Willy Brandt, are far less inclined to assume the role of adversary to Russia than Merkel's conservatives. The Social Democrats have now adopted the same strategy with Putin's authoritarian regime as they did in the 1970s, when they sought a better understanding of the Communists. Their approach -- to seek a better understanding of Russia's positions -- has been a successful political model for the party.

Germans Divided over Affiliation with West

Still, a divide is growing between the political elite and those in Germany who are sympathetic towards Russia. A recent survey conducted by pollster Infratest dimap showed that almost half of all Germans want the country to adopt the middle ground between Russia and the West. In the states that belonged to the former East Germany, twice as many people as in western German states believe that Germany should adopt a special role. But even in the western states, there is only a narrow majority which believes Germany should stand firmly on the side of NATO and the EU in the conflict with Russia. It's fair to say that when it comes to question of its affiliation with the West, Germany is a divided land.

Old anti-American sentiments, intensified by the NSA spying scandal, could very well be playing a role, along with fear of an escalation in the conflict with Russia. It's unlikely that the majority of Germans want to revive the former East-West order.

As a child in West Germany, I personally feared the Russians. I couldn't sleep at night because we had, technically at least, only reached a cease-fire agreement with the Soviet Union and it sounded like the shooting would resume again after a short pause. Fortunately, there was a lot of singing in my family. Perhaps it had to do my grandfather. Maybe they wanted to provide us with an important tool for survival later in life -- just in case the Russians came. In any case, my grandfather, who had sung for years for his very survival, never spared a nasty word about the Russians.

Europe moving away from American "Weltanschauung"

Europeans look at life and everything else differently than America

Come push to shove, Europe will not be as solid on American train as you might think

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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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East Germany was Communist for some time. A natural longing for Mother Russia that many leftists feel.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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You have no idea what you're talking about. Former communist countries in Central and Eastern Europe tend to hate the Russians.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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And they love Ronald Reagan don't they. Please PM this thread to Tinker (I love outing what people really think, thanks for that post will be using it over and over and over again in the future. It is truly gold).

But we're talking about Germany, one country, and leftists.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Mr. Perfect wrote:East Germany was Communist for some time. A natural longing for Mother Russia that many leftists feel.

Relation between Germany & Russia ZERO related to left or right

Russia & Germany were very close for 100s of yrs .. Russian Royal Family (in fact all European Royal Families) were all German stock .. Russia, Catherine the Create time, took-in large numbers of German immigrants, Volga Germans .. Russia and Germany have a "special Relation" as America argues has with Britain

European population is moving away from America .. Europe-Russia-China getting together

America must now jettison "silly" past mistakes and jump head-first into bed with Iran

If not, America will be entirely out of Middle East, leading, down the road, exiting Europe and beyond
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Azari, I have heard it said that the Westerner cannot comprehend the thinking of the Eastern (Mid Eastern) man.

I also think that reverse could be true, Easterners cannot comprehend the mind of a Westerner.

Eg, one cannot even understand the West without viewing through prism of right and left. Modern right and left been playing out for centuries in the West, takes much research to trace the roots all the way back. Very complex.

To take left and right out of the analysis is to blind oneself. Left and right color everything for a Westerner, down to picking out eyeglasses and snack foods.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Mr. Perfect wrote:And they love Ronald Reagan don't they.
I doubt that. Why would they?
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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YMix wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. Former communist countries in Central and Eastern Europe tend to hate the Russians.
The question is not whether some people love or hate Russia. It is that Russia is Europe's ticket to a greater freedom of movement. Wisely associated with Russia Europe could ensure its freedom from American diktat and an immensely large possibility for growth and development. Space, resources, strategic depth, is what Russia could bring to Europe. And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us. It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner. To jeopardize this possibility based on an instinctive fear of "Russians" is completely irrational.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Endovelico wrote:Space, resources, strategic depth, is what Russia could bring to Europe. And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us. It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner.
Depends on the price tag.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Space, resources, strategic depth, is what Russia could bring to Europe. And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us. It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner.
Depends on the price tag.
What, in your opinion, could this price tag be?
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Dunno. Russia follows its own interests, same as everybody else. Those interest might prove too expensive for us in money, commitments and adjustments. It all depends.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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YMix wrote:Dunno. Russia follows its own interests, same as everybody else. Those interest might prove too expensive for us in money, commitments and adjustments. It all depends.
Probably Russia would be satisfied with access to our industrial know-how and with an end to NATO. A price worth paying, in my opinion.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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No problems with Russia as a cultural and economic nearby presence, on the contrary. It just happens to have bouts of territorial identity crises that continue to this day that are more of a problem. How big is the bear, what are its borders? Expanding-shrinking-expanding-shrinking... This also is a visual effect caused by too much vodka. And then there is the male instinct that says that if you fucked a woman once she in principle is yours. Empires and their horny memories.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Endovelico wrote:Probably Russia would be satisfied with access to our industrial know-how and with an end to NATO. A price worth paying, in my opinion.
Well, you dislike what the USA did in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. What happens when our new Russian pals start kicking the Chechens around again? Or maybe somebody else? On the other hand, we're already in bed with both the USA and the Russian Federation, warts and all.

Or let's suppose that Russia doesn't like the European Union's program to move beyond fossil fuels.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Mr. Perfect wrote: A natural longing for Mother Russia that many leftists feel.
Mr P.

I have Russian friends and a life long admiration for Russian literature, such as Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Gogol, Solzhenitsyn, Tchekov, Pushkin, Lermontov, Bulgakov. Musically, my favourite composer is Shostakovitch and in films I admire Tarkovsky. Of course there are many more, but these spring to mind.

Does this imply a "longing for Mother Russia"? Don't know, I've never much wanted to go there. My friends intrigue me, as they are are young and sharp witted. Getting Brit humour as part of a second language is not easy and they can do it. However, I suspect life in Russia can be complicated.

The US has some attractions. I think Hemingway's 'Torrents of Spring' sums up what I feel about the US, or maybe Kerouac. Barber's music is very beautiful.

If I have a natural longing, I think it is for the international/e. :)

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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Probably Russia would be satisfied with access to our industrial know-how and with an end to NATO. A price worth paying, in my opinion.
Well, you dislike what the USA did in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. What happens when our new Russian pals start kicking the Chechens around again? Or maybe somebody else? On the other hand, we're already in bed with both the USA and the Russian Federation, warts and all.

Or let's suppose that Russia doesn't like the European Union's program to move beyond fossil fuels.
Chechenia is a strictly Russian problem which wouldn't affect us in Europe. Just like the IRA was a strictly British problem. On what concerns being simultaneously in bed with Russia and the USA, no thanks! Sadomasochism is not my scene!...
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Endovelico wrote:
YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Probably Russia would be satisfied with access to our industrial know-how and with an end to NATO. A price worth paying, in my opinion.
Well, you dislike what the USA did in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. What happens when our new Russian pals start kicking the Chechens around again? Or maybe somebody else? On the other hand, we're already in bed with both the USA and the Russian Federation, warts and all.

Or let's suppose that Russia doesn't like the European Union's program to move beyond fossil fuels.
Chechenia is a strictly Russian problem which wouldn't affect us in Europe. Just like the IRA was a strictly British problem. On what concerns being simultaneously in bed with Russia and the USA, no thanks! Sadomasochism is not my scene!...

Not a real answer.
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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Endovelico wrote:Chechenia is a strictly Russian problem which wouldn't affect us in Europe.
Another example, then. Transnistria - a stick to beat Moldova and Ukraine with. It's the classic Russian scenario: you take a piece of one country and give it to a neighbor. A strip of land that should have gone to Ukraine, was given to the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic because that's how you turn neighbors against each other. In 1991, Transnistria declared some sort of independence from Moldova and, much like the matryoshka dolls, the pattern was repeated on a smaller scale. With Russia (and Ukraine) backing it up, Transnistria claimed territory on the western bank of the Dniester. They don't really need that territory, they just need to make sure that Moldova can't say: "We accept your independence. Now fu*k off". That would put an end to the game and make Transnistria completely useless.

Since the European Union is trying to get Moldova into the fold, that makes it our problem.

Should I mention that the Moldovan government has asked NATO to train its army? That's probably Nuland's doing.
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Mr. Perfect's Perfect Pitch & Home Run........

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Mr. Perfect wrote:East Germany was Communist for some time. A natural longing for Mother Russia that many leftists feel.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post.
A natural longing for Mother Russia that many leftists feel.
Seems you may have hit a Home Run with bases ;) loaded! ..........
Endovelico wrote:
YMix wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. Former communist countries in Central and Eastern Europe tend to hate the Russians.
The question is not whether some people love or hate Russia. It is that Russia is Europe's ticket to a greater freedom of movement. Wisely associated with Russia Europe could ensure its freedom from American diktat and an immensely large possibility for growth and development. Space, resources, strategic depth, is what Russia could bring to Europe. And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us. It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner. To jeopardize this possibility based on an instinctive fear of "Russians" is completely irrational.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2746#p71688
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How many Russians does it take to switch off a gas line?....

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
YMix wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. Former communist countries in Central and Eastern Europe tend to hate the Russians.
The question is not whether some people love or hate Russia. It is that Russia is Europe's ticket to a greater freedom of movement. Wisely associated with Russia Europe could ensure its freedom from American diktat and an immensely large possibility for growth and development. Space, resources, strategic depth, is what Russia could bring to Europe. And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us. It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner. To jeopardize this possibility based on an instinctive fear of "Russians" is completely irrational.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Endovelico.
It is that Russia is Europe's ticket to a greater freedom of movement.


Traditionally that has NOT been true ;) :twisted: :lol:

You might just end up As Another BRIC ;-) oops I mean Brick ;) in the Wall ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

YR5ApYxkU-U


OTOH you may have a point, given that you mentioned "Space" ;) ......

And given that The Arrogant INCOMPETENT,Lazy LYING, Willfully STUPID Son of a Bitch Eater obama, the Dog Eating Creature from the Chicago Lagoon, shut down the Uz Manned Space Program before having another one in place while The Talented Mr. Putin, President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner of Russia, Crimea and maybe much more in short order has been Wise & Diligent in keeping the Big Bear ;) Manned Space Program going......... :idea:

Wisely associated with Russia Europe could ensure its freedom from American diktat
Given your stated opinion on the Leaders of the Euroz, even relatively Good ;) ones like Angela ;) , I don't think that "Wisely" is likely...... ;) :lol:

Also wondering what would have happened Europe without the Marshall Plan & NATO......

Would Russian diktat have extended to Lovely Sunny Portugal? :o ........

For some strange reason , ;) Euroz who have experienced/been dominated by Russia often seem less enthused about it than those who have not.........

And there aren't enough Russians to threaten us.
I'm not so sure about that*...

How many Russians does it take to switch off a gas light ;) oops I mean gas line? **..... :twisted:

The Answer is One: The Talented Mr. Putin, President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner of Russia, Crimea and maybe much more in short order!
It would give us a future and that alone would be sufficient for the population to start again growing in Europe in a reasonable manner
If you mean "Space" as in Outer Space, you may be right & I hope you are..... :D :idea: :D

If you mean Russia, I rather doubt that the Euroz, especially the West Euroz, would be keen to make babies to live under the Rule & Rules of The Talented Mr. Putin, President Prince Vlad the Imprisoner of Russia, Crimea and maybe much more........

In any case kudos to you and Spengler ;) for recognizing that the Euroz may have a demographic problem...... :idea:

*If so it is true in part because so many of them have moved to the West & Uz.., ;)

**Or raise prices on the gas flowing in it.... :idea:
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

Post by monster_gardener »

YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Probably Russia would be satisfied with access to our industrial know-how and with an end to NATO. A price worth paying, in my opinion.
Well, you dislike what the USA did in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. What happens when our new Russian pals start kicking the Chechens around again? Or maybe somebody else? On the other hand, we're already in bed with both the USA and the Russian Federation, warts and all.

Or let's suppose that Russia doesn't like the European Union's program to move beyond fossil fuels.
Thank You VERY Much for your post & maintaining the Forum, YMix.

I admire your realism here.......
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Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

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YMix wrote:
Endovelico wrote:Chechenia is a strictly Russian problem which wouldn't affect us in Europe.
Another example, then. Transnistria - a stick to beat Moldova and Ukraine with. It's the classic Russian scenario: you take a piece of one country and give it to a neighbor. A strip of land that should have gone to Ukraine, was given to the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic because that's how you turn neighbors against each other. In 1991, Transnistria declared some sort of independence from Moldova and, much like the matryoshka dolls, the pattern was repeated on a smaller scale. With Russia (and Ukraine) backing it up, Transnistria claimed territory on the western bank of the Dniester. They don't really need that territory, they just need to make sure that Moldova can't say: "We accept your independence. Now fu*k off". That would put an end to the game and make Transnistria completely useless.

Since the European Union is trying to get Moldova into the fold, that makes it our problem.

Should I mention that the Moldovan government has asked NATO to train its army? That's probably Nuland's doing.
Thank You VERY Much for your post & maintaining the Forum, YMix.

Thanks for the History/Power Politics example/lesson.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: Many Germans feel a special bond to Russia

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Never understood why West, Europe, and now America, anti Russian

Communism gone .. Putin's Russia and Russian Orthodox Church is the flag bearer of "conservatism" and "traditional values"

West is sinking drowning in decadence and social perversion .. all western traditional values are under attack by those historically enemy of culture and civilization

Last 200 yrs, Bonaparte destroyed, burned all till he arrived in Moscow, Hitler killed 25 million Russian destroying Russia

and ? ? ?

What did Russia do in return ? ?

Used, eastern Europe as buffer against Nato

and now ? ?

Crimea was and is Russian since 1000+ yrs

Russians, U fair, they fair

Jevgeni Ossinovski, the sole member of the Russian minority serving as a minister in the Estonian government, says he doesn't fear that Vladimir Putin will seek a repeat of Crimea in the Baltics.
The Russian minority, he argues, is firmly anchored in Europe.

Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, all members of the European Union since 2004, are also home to sizable ethnic Russian populations. In many cities, like Narva in Estonia, they even represent the majority. Still, Jevgeni Ossinovski doesn't believe that the Baltic Russians want to be under Vladimir Putin's sway. The 28-year-old education and research minister, appointed last month, is the first member of the Russian minority to join the Estonian government in the past 12 years.
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Last edited by Heracleum Persicum on Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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