The conflict in Ferguson, MO

[Marcus]

uj0mtxXEGE8

[kmich]

Stop Arming the Police Like a Military

If there’s anything I know after serving the Boston Police Department for 27 years, it’s this: Good policing is all about trust.

This isn’t a particularly novel insight, but my time as a beat cop hammered it into me time and again. Yet it’s incredible how many police departments across the nation have lost sight of this in their rush to transform into something more akin to a standing army rather than a civilian police force safeguarding a democratic people.

Have no doubt, police in the United States are militarizing, and in many communities, particularly those of color, the message is being received loud and clear: “You are the enemy.” Police officers are increasingly arming themselves with military-grade equipment such as assault rifles, flashbang grenades, and Mine Resistant Ambush Protected, or MRAP, vehicles and dressing up in commando gear before using battering rams to burst into the homes of people who have not been charged with a crime. Perhaps more alarming is the fact that the Pentagon has played a huge role in this militarization by transferring its weapons of war to civilian police departments through its so-called 1033 program.

Many communities now look upon police as an occupying army, their streets more reminiscent of Baghdad or Kabul than a city in America. This besieged mentality created by the militarization of police has driven a pernicious wedge into the significant gains made under community- and problem-oriented policing initiatives dating from the late 1980s. The trusting relationships so many police officers painstakingly built within their communities have been eroded by the mindset of the warrior cop.

One of the more alarming trends in the overall militarization of police, which has accelerated since 9/11, is the use of Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT, teams for routine police work. According to the ACLU’s new report, “War Comes Home,” the majority of the SWAT raids it examined was to execute search warrants, usually in low-level drug investigations. The ACLU also found that many of the SWAT raids it studied used unjustifiably “violent tactics and equipment,” often in homes where children were known to be present.

The ACLU also found something far more worrisome but unfortunately not surprising. The use of SWAT teams disproportionately impacts people of color, particularly when the teams were deployed to execute a search warrant for a drug investigation. Of the cases the ACLU studied, when SWAT raids affected blacks and Latinos, 68 percent were for drug searches. But when SWAT raids affected whites, only 38 percent were for drug searches, even though whites use drugs at roughly the same rates as blacks and Latinos.

This discriminatory and excessive use of SWAT teams turns the criminal justice system on its head and eviscerates the presumption of innocence, which is the hallmark of American justice. People who have been charged with no crime aren’t only treated like they’re guilty; they’re made to endure a violent intrusion into their home based on the mere suspicion of low-level crimes. To the victims of unnecessary SWAT raids and their communities, the idea that police are there to serve and protect them becomes a bad joke.

This isn’t to say that the use of SWAT teams is never justified. I know better than most. I participated in one of the very first SWAT deployments at the Boston Police Department when a man who shot a police superintendent barricaded himself in an apartment. But this is the precise type of situation that the SWAT program was created for, not breaking down the door of people in the middle of the night with guns drawn in pursuit of drugs.

Militarized policing undermines the very notion of law enforcement in a democratic society. Rather than reassuring us that we are safe and out of harm’s way, it creates a pervasive sense that we are unsafe and in danger, sometimes from the police themselves. It’s not surprising then that the ACLU also discovered that the militarization of domestic law enforcement occurred without any input, direction, or oversight from affected communities and that law enforcement agencies’ records on acquisitions of military weapons, vehicles, and equipment were “virtually nonexistent.”

The situation, however, is far from being beyond hope or possible resolution. Not all police practitioners — including policy makers, administrators, managers, supervisors and line officers — endorse and support the militarization of America’s law enforcement agencies. Progressive police chiefs in Madison, Wisconsin, and Salt Lake City, Utah, for example, have been publicly critical of police militarization practices and initiatives.

If we want to roll back the militarization of our police forces, the ACLU offers many common sense recommendations, but two stand out as critical first steps. The first is that the use of paramilitary tactics should be restricted solely to situations where there is a true and verifiable emergency, such as a hostage or barricade situation. The second would require that police record and report all uses of paramilitary tactics, including a justification for the use of SWAT, as well as all injuries and property damage caused by the use of SWAT teams.

Our streets and communities aren’t warzones, but the creeping militarization of our police forces and the warrior mindset it creates has the feel of a self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of our nation’s law enforcement agencies.

Dr. Tom Nolan is an associate professor and the chair of the Department of Criminal Justice at the State University of New York at Plattsburgh. He served 27 years in the Boston Police Department before retiring as a uniformed lieutenant.

[Marcus]

g8pHZ_drcyI

[monster_gardener]

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/cop-involv ... et-report/

Cop involved in Ferguson shooting has fractured eye socket: report

By Bob Fredericks and Post Wires

August 19, 2014 | 10:41pm
Modal Trigger
Cop involved in Ferguson shooting has fractured eye socket: report
Police stand by while protesters march through Ferguson, Mo., on Aug. 19. Photo: AP

The black teen killed by a white cop in Ferguson, Mo., viciously attacked the officer as he sat in his patrol car, delivering a bone-crunching punch that shattered the cop’s eye socket, a report claimed Tuesday.

Officer Darren Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket,” Gateway Pundit reported, citing sources in the St. Louis County Police Department and the DA’s office.

Wilson, who shot unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown on Aug. 9, has not spoken publicly about the shooting, and is currently holed up at an undisclosed location.

A close friend revealed text messages the pair exchanged in which the cop said he is under 24-hour guard and “can’t go out,” the Daily Mail reported.

Jake Shepard, a nurse who has been friends with Wilson for 14 years, said Wilson did the right thing by defending himself against the hulking teen.

Wilson’s first text was sent last Friday after Shepard spoke to CNN in support of his pal.

“Thanks buddy I wasn’t expecting that,” Wilson wrote.

“No problem buddy, you deserve it,” Shepard responded, to which Wilson replied, “It means a lot thank you.”

Wilson texted him again on Monday, saying, “The support is really keeping me going during this stressful time. Just stay safe. I appreciate all you have done.”

Meanwhile, tensions flared in St. Louis — four miles from where Brown was slain — when cops killed a knife-wielding robbery suspect shouting, “Shoot me now! Kill me now!,” authorities said.

The shooting happened about 12:30 p.m. local time after the unidentified man had swiped energy drinks and pastries, St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said.

“The suspect, who right now is described as a 23-year-old African-American, was acting erratically — walking back and forth up and down the street,” Dotson told reporters.

“As officers arrived, the suspect turned towards the officers and started to walk towards them clutching his waistband. He then pulled out a knife . . . and told the officers, ‘Shoot me now! Kill me now!’ ” the chief said.

“One of the witnesses described it as a suicide by cop.”

Cops said the shooting had no connection to the Ferguson case, describing it as an isolated incident.

But a crowd of about 100 gathered at the scene, some of them chanting “Hands up! Don’t shoot!” — the same refrain chanted by protesters in Ferguson.

The St. Louis cops involved in the shooting were placed on administrative duty according to department policy, Dotson said. Their identities were not revealed and neither officer’s race was immediately disclosed.

In Ferguson, officials called yet again for calm after at least 31 people were arrested overnight Monday into Tuesday — including a self-styled Communist revolutionary from Brooklyn.

Travis Morales was charged with refusal to disperse after he ignored cops’ orders to move, sources said.
Modal Trigger

Michael BrownPhoto: Facebook

A Vine video shows a man believed to be Morales — clad in a T-shirt that reads “Revolution, Nothing Less” — arguing with cops before his arrest.

State Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson ripped Morales and other outside agitators for bringing violence to Ferguson.

“I am not going to let the criminals that have come here from across this country, or live in this neighborhood, define this community,” Johnson said.

About 17 others busted were also from out of state, including demonstrators from Chicago and other parts of Illinois, Alabama, Iowa, California, Washington, DC, and Austin, Texas.

Two people were shot overnight, but neither shooting involved the police. However, cops did fire multiple canisters of tear gas to disperse rioters and prevent further looting.

Also Tuesday, Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Brown’s family, said the teen’s funeral and memorial service would be held Monday.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Doc...

Time to post that video of Michael Brown robbing that store and assaulting the clerk....

Money shot at ~1:28... Brown assaults the clerk, begins to leave the store and then comes back to threaten the clerk more.....

mkOfqIXkBRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOfqIXkBRE

A REAL POS Michael Brown....

NOT a good boy like his father and others said...

Rather Michael Brown was like those perps Chris Rock talks about here:

f3PJF0YE-x4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PJF0YE-x4

[Nonc Hilaire]

Michael Brown's shooting was not a planned incident.

Sending waves of overarmed and overheated cops into a crowd of protestors with rifles drawn was planned. So was the decision to not have the cops interfere with the looters.

Brown's death demands an investigation. The more serious and systemic problems of incompetent planning and implementation of procedures can be addressed relatively easily.

[Marcus]

. . Sending waves of overarmed and overheated cops into a crowd of protestors with rifles drawn was planned. So was the decision to not have the cops interfere with the looters. . .

But how do you know this? Were you privy to the decision-making in Ferguson? Did someone issue a news release to that effect?

"Above all, be conscientiously cautious of busying yourself with the affairs of state. Many indulge themselves in great impertinency in this respect; that affect to have a profound knowledge of politics; to be acquainted with private negotiations, and the secret springs of action; to which are often added rash censures of what they do not understand. They can find some fault in every measure of their governors; can tell to whose ignorance or unfaithfulness every disappointment was owing; or to gratify whose pride or revenge this or that step was taken, or law made. By this means they not only [commit] great folly, but divert others from their proper business, and set them against the most prudent or even necessary measures..." —Richard Steele, The Religious Tradesman, 1747

[Doc]

Michael Brown's shooting was not a planned incident.

Sending waves of overarmed and overheated cops into a crowd of protestors with rifles drawn was planned. So was the decision to not have the cops interfere with the looters.

Brown's death demands an investigation. The more serious and systemic problems of incompetent planning and implementation of procedures can be addressed relatively easily.

Not to mention sending in crowds of looters from out of state. .. Word is of the 78 people arrested in Ferguson for looting/protesting 75 were from out of town.....

Which makes sense of reports of protesters trying to get people to stay on the side walks being ignored by many of those there. As for the investigation Investigations take time. Witnesses have to be tracked down and interviewed Autopsy and medical reports have to be looked at. A fracture Eye socket as apparently the Cop suffered can be a very serious injury with the possibility of infection that could lead to death or permanent eye injury. The eye socket get crushed down into the sinus cavity

This is something the police should have been up front about right at the beginning that the cop was seriously injury when Johnson hit him through the car window. It would likely have prevented a lot of anger and violence in Ferguson.

[Nonc Hilaire]

. . Sending waves of overarmed and overheated cops into a crowd of protestors with rifles drawn was planned. So was the decision to not have the cops interfere with the looters. . .

But how do you know this? Were you privy to the decision-making in Ferguson? Did someone issue a news release to that effect?

Everyone on the police force dressing in camo, driving around in an MRAP, hauling out an MRAD, everybody carrying rifles and pointing them at unarmed people, everyone deliberately not interfering with looters.

Do you really think there was not someone in charge ordering these actions? That this was all just spontaneous actions taken by individual officers? Just normal, daily police procedure?

[Marcus]

Everyone on the police force dressing in camo, driving around in an MRAP, hauling out an MRAD, everybody carrying rifles and pointing them at unarmed people, everyone deliberately not interfering with looters.

Do you really think there was not someone in charge ordering these actions? That this was all just spontaneous actions taken by individual officers? Just normal, daily police procedure?

I have no idea, Nonc, and unless you were there, neither do you.

There's a huge difference between an accusation of poor or questionable judgement—in one's own opinion, of course—and an accusation of deliberately inciting to riot.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Everyone on the police force dressing in camo, driving around in an MRAP, hauling out an MRAD, everybody carrying rifles and pointing them at unarmed people, everyone deliberately not interfering with looters.

Do you really think there was not someone in charge ordering these actions? That this was all just spontaneous actions taken by individual officers? Just normal, daily police procedure?

I have no idea, Nonc, and unless you were there, neither do you.

There's a huge difference between an accusation of poor or questionable judgement—in one's own opinion, of course—and an accusation of deliberately inciting to riot.

I am 100% positive, Marcus. The police in riot gear were part of a planned, organized operation. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference between a government planned event and an isolated incident.

Image one is a policeman who got dressed at home and went to work. Just another day. Isolated incident.

Image two is police who were directed to change into riot gear at the station and given a plan to act in concert by a superior officer. They would be fired if they acted that way without specific orders.

Unplanned:


Planned:

[Marcus]

I have no idea, Nonc, and unless you were there, neither do you.
There's a huge difference between an accusation of poor or questionable judgement—in one's own opinion, of course—and an accusation of deliberately inciting to riot.

I am 100% positive, Marcus. The police in riot gear were part of a planned, organized operation. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference between a government planned event and an isolated incident. . .

Well, then I guess I'm no genius, Nonc, or maybe I just don't see as clearly as you do.

When even Park Rangers and Fish & Game up here wear flak jackets on daily-duty, I can only imagine what a cop in Ferguson must feel like. A war zone? I know if I were there and I were a cop, I'd have on and be carrying every bit of battle gear I could lay my hands on . . preferably from behind a tank or armored personnel carrier. It's nuts out there, Nonc . . can't blame the cops for responding in kind.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

What I don't understand about Nonc's point is this idea that the cops are totally out of control in their militarized gear. What I've seen is a whole police department outfitted to the nines with all these gizmos and gadgets of our new standard military-police forces; and then they are ordered to stand around and watch people loot. Sometimes they've used rubber bullets and tear gas- things cops have used for a long time now- which don't need all the special paramilitary gear.

The whole point of this militarizing doesn't seem to be that well thought out beyond, "If we dress with the latest paramilitary gear, we'll put the fear of god into people." But the police (and politicians) are clearly more afraid of the rioters and those voters who are watching images of the riots.

Otherwise, the police have no control over the situation. When they are inflaming it, it is due to incompetence and due to the fact that no one in charge wants to actually be the one to give orders to have white cops actually confront the black rioters.

So what am I missing here?

[Marcus]

. . So what am I missing here?

Not a lot, Nap, I think you've pretty well nailed the problem.

Personally, I'd like to see some of these namby-pamby types put their lives on the line for what . . 70k a year? No helmet, no flak jacket, just a blue uniform and your 9 mm. Catch a rock to the head, watch out for the Molotov cocktail, dodge those AK-47 rounds . . you betcha . .

Wake up people . . it's a war zone out there, and the cops are simply doing their best to respond and stay alive doing it.

[Nonc Hilaire]

So what am I missing here?

Nothing.

Individual incidents result from lack of training, error and hiring the wrong people. The administration has limited control.

Ferguson has complete control of their policies and procedures. But what have they changed?

[Marcus]

. . Individual incidents result from lack of training, error and hiring the wrong people. . .

So what are you saying?

That incidents like Ferguson are simply the result of poor cop training, bad cop judgement, and the wrong people working as cops? If that's what you're saying, Nonc, you sound like Timothy Treadwell . . there are no bad bears, only friendly bears, and the only people hurt are bear-watchers with lack of training, etc., etc.,

You betcha . . tell it to all the widows and orphans of the cops who have been killed in the line of duty . . . have you ever actually, personally known a real cop? Did he get bad training? Was he stupid? The wrong guy for the job?

My great-uncle, who drove an ambulance in WW I, was retired from the Detroit Police as disabled . . he was permanently crippled after being shot in the hip by a guy robbing a drug store . . the perp dropped two cops, killing one, as fast as they entered the building . . this was back in the 1930s . . much, much worse today. It's a war zone out there . .

During the Detroit race riots in the 40s, my dad was driving bus . . the cops walked the downtown streets with Thompsons, and if you didn't stop when they said "stop," they stopped you . .

[monster_gardener]

I have no idea, Nonc, and unless you were there, neither do you.
There's a huge difference between an accusation of poor or questionable judgement—in one's own opinion, of course—and an accusation of deliberately inciting to riot.

I am 100% positive, Marcus. The police in riot gear were part of a planned, organized operation. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference between a government planned event and an isolated incident. . .

Well, then I guess I'm no genius, Nonc, or maybe I just don't see as clearly as you do.

When even Park Rangers and Fish & Game up here wear flak jackets on daily-duty, I can only imagine what a cop in Ferguson must feel like. A war zone? I know if I were there and I were a cop, I'd have on and be carrying every bit of battle gear I could lay my hands on . . preferably from behind a tank or armored personnel carrier. It's nuts out there, Nonc . . can't blame the cops for responding in kind.

Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Marcus...

When even Park Rangers and Fish & Game up here wear flak jackets on daily-duty,

I may be old fashioned but I do NOT believe that police should wear military attire/equipment during their daily patrols AS LONG as civic peace mostly prevails. Yes there may be some robberies like that POS Michael Brown did at the convenience store but more or less peace prevail....

OTOH once the riots begin, it is time for Curfew and if Necessary Martial Law when the National Guard is called up and the Police with them wear all their military armor and arms from the National Guard Armory that are needed to restore the civic peace....

There may be some unusually violent locations like on the Southern Border or in the Hood in Chicago or perhaps when violent terrorists like the Tsarnev Brothers or that Rogue LA cop Dorner is loose that might also justify a military response but in general, police should try to be police until the situation becomes military...

I may be wrong.... Willing to debate....

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


Look, let's not beat around bushes here

there are 2 problems here that are "SYSTEMIC"

- all civilians are armed to the teeth .. all kinds of armament .. phony excuse being "recreational" or protection against criminals .. both
phony and rubbish .. Police must protect against this, and, is armed to teeth too, military style, justified

- Systemic discrimination against (specifically) Blacks for many reasons

Not addressing this 2 "cancers" will lead to disasters, only matter of time

and

This 2 issues have a profound (and devastating) effect on American psyche, culture .. why do Americans "constantly" fear criminals, being rubbed and attacked ? ? why German Joe feel safe in his home and on Munich streets and not American Joe

Why barrier to killing and shooting is so much lower in America (and American culture and society) than anywhere else, in Europe or even in Bangladesh ? ? where else "regularly" there is school shooting, or kids must pass metal detectors B4 entering classes ? ?

Sayin all fine is a disservice to America

IMO, America must retreat from world, come home to take care of American problems .. most American kids graduate from high-school not knowing how to multiply two 3 figure numbers, notion America can import talent and no need to make them at home sure recipe for disaster as come a time those talents rather stay home (as now happening with China)


.

[kmich]

Police Officer: 'if you don’t want to get shot...just do what I tell you.'

J.D. Tuccille|Aug. 19, 2014

"If you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground," warns Officer Sunil Dutta of the Los Angeles Police Department, "just do what I tell you."

The thing is, Officer Dutta (pictured) is also an Adjunct Professor of Homeland Security and Criminal Justice at Colorado Technical University. And he uttered those words not in the heat of the moment, but in an opinion piece in the Washington Post responding to widespread criticism of police attitudes and tactics currently on display in Ferguson, Missouri, but increasingly common nationwide.

Dutta continues:

Don't argue with me, don't call me names, don't tell me that I can't stop you, don't say I'm a racist pig, don't threaten that you'll sue me and take away my badge. Don't scream at me that you pay my salary, and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

Dutta actually comes off as a reasonable law enforcement officer, when compared to some of his colleagues who can be found venting on police-only bulletin boards or referring to Ferguson protesters as "genuflecting animals." Dutta acknowledges that police can abuse their authority, saying "When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves."

He endorses the use of body cameras and dashcams to record interactions between police and the public. He counsels, "you don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there's no warrant."

And yet he demands unresisting submission to police without argument or even legal protest. Just how do you "refuse consent to search your car or home" without running afoul of the no-nos Dutta warns may get you "shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground"?

Remember, this is a thoughtful police officer, with a PhD., who teaches criminal justice.

Maybe Matthew Worden, an Enfield, Connecticut, police officer, was being thoughtful when he beat the living lavender out of Mark Maher earlier this year. That incident begaan when Maher asked Worden why another person was being detained.

Worden's own department thought the officer's actions were over the top, but the state's attorney declined to seek arrest or prosecution.

Militarized policeLiveLeakThe last week has seen an enormous and justifiable focus on the militarization of police departments in this country, including tactics and equipment. Jungle camouflage, assault rifles, and armored personnel carriers have been part of an intentionally intimidating show of force in Ferguson, Missouri—the sort of display that has become all too common throughout the country.

But you don't have to have an armored vehicle to be a jerk and a danger to the public. If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do.

If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit.

The law enforcement problem in this country goes well beyond boys with toys. It's much deeper, and needs to be torn out by the roots.

[Typhoon]

1960's

The Mod Squad

2010's

The Goon Squad

What happened to Miranda rights, search warrants, and the relevant parts of the US Constitution?

[In Japan, the police officer is the guy at the local koban [police box] that you ask for directions, the guy you hand over a found lost wallet or other item, and the guy who might give you a warning for bicycling at night with a broken light.]

[Marcus]

Look, let's not beat around bushes here

there are 2 problems here that are "SYSTEMIC"

- all civilians are armed to the teeth .. all kinds of armament .. phony excuse being "recreational" or protection against criminals .. both
phony and rubbish .. Police must protect against this, and, is armed to teeth too, military style, justified

- Systemic discrimination against (specifically) Blacks for many reasons

Not addressing this 2 "cancers" will lead to disasters, only matter of time

and

This 2 issues have a profound (and devastating) effect on American psyche, culture .. why do Americans "constantly" fear criminals, being rubbed and attacked ? ? why German Joe feel safe in his home and on Munich streets and not American Joe

Why barrier to killing and shooting is so much lower in America (and American culture and society) than anywhere else, in Europe or even in Bangladesh ? ? where else "regularly" there is school shooting, or kids must pass metal detectors B4 entering classes ? ?

Sayin all fine is a disservice to America

IMO, America must retreat from world, come home to take care of American problems .. most American kids graduate from high-school not knowing how to multiply two 3 figure numbers, notion America can import talent and no need to make them at home sure recipe for disaster as come a time those talents rather stay home (as now happening with China).

That's very well said, ALI, and I agree. We got lots bigger problems than who becomes the next POTUS.

[kmich]

1960's

The Mod Squad

2010's

The Goon Squad

What happened to Miranda rights, search warrants, and the relevant parts of the US Constitution?

[In Japan, the police officer is the guy at the local koban [police box] that you ask for directions, the guy you hand over a found lost wallet or other item, and the guy who might give you a warning for bicycling at night with a broken light.]

I have known and worked for many years with police, courts, coroners, etc. in the course of medical practice. Most officials are decent and dedicated public servants, good family and community people, but there is, as usual, the count of brainless assholes as one would find in any group of people.

But this is not the problem in Ferguson or elsewhere. This is not about the usual jerks behaving badly on one side or the other, rogue cops, looters, and such. Such people exploit the breakdown in law and community relations and act out their assholery, but they are not the primary cause of that deterioration. Focusing the attention on the criminal looters and the bad cops is much like attending to Lynndie England, the lady with the leash at Abu Ghraib, and not attending to the moral collapse of our relations within Iraqi society at that time.

More often than not, this is about good people being placed in positions of power and anonymity, carrying weapons, behind armor, behind authority, behind a badge. When I talk with police, the experienced ones will always say that effective community policing is entirely dependent upon quality community relationships and trust. Without that collaboration you become stuck behind the badge, the gun, the armor and the relationship context becomes adversarial and dangerous. Even normally decent people and good cops can behave badly in this context. Philip Zimbardo, the author of the notorious yet prescient Stanford Prison experiment, put it best:

“The critical message then is to be sensitive about our vulnerability to subtle but powerful situational forces and, by such awareness, be more able to overcome those forces. Group pressures, authority symbols, dehumanization of others, imposed anonymity, dominant ideologies that enable spurious ends to justify immoral means, lack of surveillance, and other situational forces can work to transform even some of the best of us into Mr. Hyde monsters, without the benefit of Dr. Jekyll's chemical elixir. We must be more aware of how situational variables can influence our behavior. Further, we must also be aware that veiled behind the power of the situation is the greater power of the system, which creates and maintains complicity at the highest military and governmental levels with evil-inducing situations, like those at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay prisons.” (Zimbardo, Philip G. "Revisiting the Stanford Prison Experiment: a Lesson in the Power of Situation." The Chronicle of Higher Education 53.30 (2007). Academic OneFile. Web. 15 Mar. 2013).

A breakdown in police - community relations occurred in Ferguson. The greater dialogue this has sparked in the nation suggests that this is a much larger issue. We are mostly good people, but good people can act evil when given power, authority, and anonymity. Are we in danger of becoming a national variation of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Are we there? What do we value when faced with challenges? Violence, power, authority, winning? Or do we value community, our relationships, and cooperation? Who are we? What kind of nation do we really want to be? A nation of tough guys who kick ass or a genuine civil society?

[Marcus]

. . this is about good people . . in positions of . . anonymity, . .

. . this is a much larger issue. We are mostly good people, but good people can act evil when given . . anonymity. Are we in danger of becoming a national variation of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Are we there? . .

Are we there? I think so.

As witness such fora as these . . where we choose to relate anonymously . . .

[Heracleum Persicum]

YknrZE0CCYE

[Typhoon]

1960's

The Mod Squad

2010's

The Goon Squad

What happened to Miranda rights, search warrants, and the relevant parts of the US Constitution?

[In Japan, the police officer is the guy at the local koban [police box] that you ask for directions, the guy you hand over a found lost wallet or other item, and the guy who might give you a warning for bicycling at night with a broken light.]

I have known and worked for many years with police, courts, coroners, etc. in the course of medical practice. Most officials are decent and dedicated public servants, good family and community people, but there is, as usual, the count of brainless assholes as one would find in any group of people.

But this is not the problem in Ferguson or elsewhere. This is not about the usual jerks behaving badly on one side or the other, rogue cops, looters, and such. Such people exploit the breakdown in law and community relations and act out their assholery, but they are not the primary cause of that deterioration. Focusing the attention on the criminal looters and the bad cops is much like attending to Lynndie England, the lady with the leash at Abu Ghraib, and not attending to the moral collapse of our relations within Iraqi society at that time.

More often than not, this is about good people being placed in positions of power and anonymity, carrying weapons, behind armor, behind authority, behind a badge. When I talk with police, the experienced ones will always say that effective community policing is entirely dependent upon quality community relationships and trust. Without that collaboration you become stuck behind the badge, the gun, the armor and the relationship context becomes adversarial and dangerous. Even normally decent people and good cops can behave badly in this context. Philip Zimbardo, the author of the notorious yet prescient Stanford Prison experiment, put it best:

“The critical message then is to be sensitive about our vulnerability to subtle but powerful situational forces and, by such awareness, be more able to overcome those forces. Group pressures, authority symbols, dehumanization of others, imposed anonymity, dominant ideologies that enable spurious ends to justify immoral means, lack of surveillance, and other situational forces can work to transform even some of the best of us into Mr. Hyde monsters, without the benefit of Dr. Jekyll's chemical elixir. We must be more aware of how situational variables can influence our behavior. Further, we must also be aware that veiled behind the power of the situation is the greater power of the system, which creates and maintains complicity at the highest military and governmental levels with evil-inducing situations, like those at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay prisons.” (Zimbardo, Philip G. "Revisiting the Stanford Prison Experiment: a Lesson in the Power of Situation." The Chronicle of Higher Education 53.30 (2007). Academic OneFile. Web. 15 Mar. 2013).

A breakdown in police - community relations occurred in Ferguson. The greater dialogue this has sparked in the nation suggests that this is a much larger issue. We are mostly good people, but good people can act evil when given power, authority, and anonymity. Are we in danger of becoming a national variation of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Are we there? What do we value when faced with challenges? Violence, power, authority, winning? Or do we value community, our relationships, and cooperation? Who are we? What kind of nation do we really want to be? A nation of tough guys who kick ass or a genuine civil society?

Well stated and argued.

In Japan social control is achieved in part through fear of shame.

My impression, after living in the Midwest, is that social control in the US is achieved in part through fear of punishment.

[monster_gardener]

1960's

The Mod Squad

2010's

The Goon Squad

What happened to Miranda rights, search warrants, and the relevant parts of the US Constitution?

[In Japan, the police officer is the guy at the local koban [police box] that you ask for directions, the guy you hand over a found lost wallet or other item, and the guy who might give you a warning for bicycling at night with a broken light.]

I have known and worked for many years with police, courts, coroners, etc. in the course of medical practice. Most officials are decent and dedicated public servants, good family and community people, but there is, as usual, the count of brainless assholes as one would find in any group of people.

But this is not the problem in Ferguson or elsewhere. This is not about the usual jerks behaving badly on one side or the other, rogue cops, looters, and such. Such people exploit the breakdown in law and community relations and act out their assholery, but they are not the primary cause of that deterioration. Focusing the attention on the criminal looters and the bad cops is much like attending to Lynndie England, the lady with the leash at Abu Ghraib, and not attending to the moral collapse of our relations within Iraqi society at that time.

More often than not, this is about good people being placed in positions of power and anonymity, carrying weapons, behind armor, behind authority, behind a badge. When I talk with police, the experienced ones will always say that effective community policing is entirely dependent upon quality community relationships and trust. Without that collaboration you become stuck behind the badge, the gun, the armor and the relationship context becomes adversarial and dangerous. Even normally decent people and good cops can behave badly in this context. Philip Zimbardo, the author of the notorious yet prescient Stanford Prison experiment, put it best:

“The critical message then is to be sensitive about our vulnerability to subtle but powerful situational forces and, by such awareness, be more able to overcome those forces. Group pressures, authority symbols, dehumanization of others, imposed anonymity, dominant ideologies that enable spurious ends to justify immoral means, lack of surveillance, and other situational forces can work to transform even some of the best of us into Mr. Hyde monsters, without the benefit of Dr. Jekyll's chemical elixir. We must be more aware of how situational variables can influence our behavior. Further, we must also be aware that veiled behind the power of the situation is the greater power of the system, which creates and maintains complicity at the highest military and governmental levels with evil-inducing situations, like those at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay prisons.” (Zimbardo, Philip G. "Revisiting the Stanford Prison Experiment: a Lesson in the Power of Situation." The Chronicle of Higher Education 53.30 (2007). Academic OneFile. Web. 15 Mar. 2013).

A breakdown in police - community relations occurred in Ferguson. The greater dialogue this has sparked in the nation suggests that this is a much larger issue. We are mostly good people, but good people can act evil when given power, authority, and anonymity. Are we in danger of becoming a national variation of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Are we there? What do we value when faced with challenges? Violence, power, authority, winning? Or do we value community, our relationships, and cooperation? Who are we? What kind of nation do we really want to be? A nation of tough guys who kick ass or a genuine civil society?

Thank You Very Much for your post, kmich.

Who are we?

Except by the Grace of G_d & proper upbringing/socialization/fear of the Law....

Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkeys on verge of becoming Killer Apes...

What kind of nation do we really want to be?

I would like it to be a nation of Astronauts, Engineers, Scientists & Space Explorers because that is where the ultimate threat is IF we don't do ourselves first because we tend to be as above.... :roll

A nation of tough guys who kick ass or a genuine civil society?

Could depend who the US & the West is going up against.....

The equivalent of British Colonial Troops or Islamic State Caliphate Commandos...

Recalling that there are no Buddhists in Afghanistan where once King Asoka the Great & Gracious ruled because the Caliphate Commandos "slaughtered the shaven pated Brahmins" that is the Buddhist monks and nuns of ancient Afghanistan

While in the West a Bastard Mayor of the Palace named Charles Martel at Tours hammered the Caliphate Commandos Frankly....

And the West survived.....