The conflict in Ferguson, MO

[Doc]

So for those hundreds of thousands of years after our hominid ancestors migrated from Africa, those who lived in the huts and caves of northern climates and became "white" used their minds, while the ancestors left in Africa had to stay busy running away from wild game and learning how to throw spears and becoming athletic. Got it

You may try and make it sound ridiculous, but just think:

In the colder northern climates you don't just pick your food from trees. You must figure out how to feed yourself, you must figure out how to survive winter, you must develop more sophisticated tools to ensure your survival. The cleverer ones survived, the dumber ones died early. Physical strength was useful but wasn't sufficient. In the warmer African climate, housing wasn't a necessity, food was readily available, predators were abundant and very dangerous. The stronger, faster individuals survived, the weaker ones died very early. If you think that a few thousand years of pruning the less efficient in either situation wouldn't make a difference, you are kidding yourself. Under present conditions these differences will fade away in time.

There are myriads of problems with this.

-If it were really eugenic pruning, there'd be much more diversity then there is now.

-Homo Sapien Sapiens have never been particularly isolated or sedentary. Long distance migratory patterns and inter-mixing is a very common theme up to the beginning of agriculture.

-Mate selection (or even getting the chance to mate) is a very capricious thing.

-Even if mating correlated with adaption to the surrounding environment it would only be done to minimums. You don't need to be all that fast or smart (both as presently measured) to succeed in those climes mentioned. In fact it may be preferable to be rather mediocre. As a rule, positive and negative outliers, for both body and mind, are treated suspiciously or are generally unwelcome.

-The delineation between groups is vague, arbitrary and is poor at conceptualizing. Diseases often associated with one area or people are often found in other areas at high percentages (Sickle cell anemia comes to mind.) Is it then an "African disease" or a "Mediterranean" one or an "Ashkenazim Jewish" one? How is that decided? Who does it belong to more and what are we to gain by assigning it to just one group?

-You mention a lack of housing; but my understanding is that housing has always been a pretty universal trait in Africa with the exception of hunter gatherers. Hunter gatherers are not only located in Africa of course.

-In general, the differences are not that pronounced. West African elite sprinters and East African distance runners may beat out all others due to some sort of genetic pressure, but this is a cross section of the top of the top outliers.

-Most differences of IQ average [if we are to trust IQ testing to begin with] are due to a lack of acculturation, at least here in the US. When corrected for, the average white and black American will score around 100 and fall within the 85 to 114 range. There is no reason to doubt that this is generally true in all post-industrialized societies (or is presently capable in most of the rest.)

Now if were were talking about maybe the San people or the Australian aboriginals or other groups that seem either closely tied to the origin of the homo sapien sapien species or long isolated from it; maybe I'd entertain that there is an argument for a change in cognitive ability there; but this is dealing with a very small segment of humanity and doesn't seem to reflect most of the planet.

Maybe I should google it for myself but I will ask anyway where exactly did the Australian aboriginals come from? They are the only group of people I know of that I haven't seen information of how they got where they are.

[noddy]

australian aboriginals are several different groups from several different migration periods.

the tasmanian ones which famously got genocided by euopean settlement were apparently the first group and they had already been genocided off the mainland by later migrations.

the far northern ones also include melanesians and more modern asiapacific peoples.

i wouldnt go putting any lack of iq on any of them, their problems with modernity are cultural like all of the other hunter gatherer/migratory gypsy groups around the planet.

[Doc]

australian aboriginals are several different groups from several different migration periods.

the tasmanian ones which famously got genocided by euopean settlement were apparently the first group and they had already been genocided off the mainland by later migrations.

the far northern ones also include melanesians and more modern asiapacific peoples.

i wouldnt go putting any lack of iq on any of them, their problems with modernity are cultural like all of the other hunter gatherer/migratory gypsy groups around the planet.

Honestly I would not think to put anything on them or over on them for that matter. I read the Wikipedia article about the Tasmanians. Sad

[manolo]

If making money is the only measure of success, integration and general worthyness.. then only 1% of all Americans is worthy. I would say though that this 1% is the worst integrated of all.

Parodite,

That's worth thinking about.

Alex.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

i wouldnt go putting any lack of iq on any of them, their problems with modernity are cultural like all of the other hunter gatherer/migratory gypsy groups around the planet.

That's a fair point. My intention wasn't so much as to single them out or try to explain their situation; it was just to emphasize that there are very few groups (if any) of homo sapien sapiens who have been isolated long enough from the rest of the species to even possibly display (as a group) any great and consistent differences in intelligence or physicality.

[manolo]

Folks,

I owe an apology to my fellow posters on this thread. I thought that my theory on reducing gun crime in the US would work, but it doesn't. The problem is that I was looking at the US in isolation. However, further research in the statistics of gun crime internationally shows that my theory on liberalising gun crime is counterfactual.

For example, in 2002 there were 9,369 murders by firearm in the US. Comparing this with other developed nations we find Canada with 144, Germany with 269, Spain with 97, Australia with 59, and the UK with 14.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... h-firearms

Now, there is obviously a difference in population levels between these countries, but even given that variation the difference between the numbers is massive. Just looking at the UK with 14 and the US with 9,369 points up the problem. The UK (and other countries mentioned) have a small amount of gun crime compared to the US, and they all have something in common - tighter gun control legislation than the US.

I just can't see how I could have made such a stupid mistake. If the country with the most liberal gun control legislation has so much more gun crime than countries with tighter gun control legislation, it does not easily follow that further liberalising gun control in the US will bring it nearer to the levels found in similarly developed countries with the tighter gun control legislation.

Anyway, I gave it a good shot, and 'An armed society is a polite society' was a catchy phrase. However, the argument does not follow the numbers, so I will have to reluctantly abandon my pet theory in the face of facts on the ground and fall into line with wiser heads on this issue.

Again, apologies for misleading anyone.

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

Folks,

I owe an apology to my fellow posters on this thread. I thought that my theory on reducing gun crime in the US would work, but it doesn't. The problem is that I was looking at the US in isolation. However, further research in the statistics of gun crime internationally shows that my theory on liberalising gun crime is counterfactual.

For example, in 2002 there were 9,369 murders by firearm in the US. Comparing this with other developed nations we find Canada with 144, Germany with 269, Spain with 97, Australia with 59, and the UK with 14.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... h-firearms

Now, there is obviously a difference in population levels between these countries, but even given that variation the difference between the numbers is massive. Just looking at the UK with 14 and the US with 9,369 points up the problem. The UK (and other countries mentioned) have a small amount of gun crime compared to the US, and they all have something in common - tighter gun control legislation than the US.

I just can't see how I could have made such a stupid mistake. If the country with the most liberal gun control legislation has so much more gun crime than countries with tighter gun control legislation, it does not easily follow that further liberalising gun control in the US will bring it nearer to the levels found in similarly developed countries with the tighter gun control legislation.

Anyway, I gave it a good shot, and 'An armed society is a polite society' was a catchy phrase. However, the argument does not follow the numbers, so I will have to reluctantly abandon my pet theory in the face of facts on the ground and fall into line with wiser heads on this issue.

Again, apologies for misleading anyone.

Alex.

alex,

No need to apologize. You logic is flawless.

Now, imagine the cost savings to society of making it illegal for people who can not safely operate motorcycles over, say, 30 horsepower from buying motorcycles over 30 horsepower. What's not to like?

Not my idea, but the idea of a young friend from England after discussing your motorcycle accident and the NHS picking up the cost. No worries! I stuck up for you and told him that line of thinking was "Un-American!" Unfortunately, less Un-American today than in years past.

Once Big Brother gets motorcycles classified as a disease, we will both be walking.

[Simple Minded]

Alex,

What city were you in when you were a college employment advisor?

SM,

Anonymity . One of my web weaknesses is veering to the confessional.

Alex.

alex,

I understand. I was just curious. In some areas, the idea of telling people to self-segregate would be viewed considerably less favorably than in other areas.

[Doc]

Guns for me but not for thee.

Obama refuses to end military weapons transfers to local police departments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/us/po ... -gear.html

Obama to Toughen Standards on Police Use of Military Gear


By MARK LANDLERDEC. 1, 2014

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday announced that he would tighten standards on the provision and use of military-style equipment by local police departments, but he stopped short of curtailing the transfer of such hardware or weapons to the local authorities.

After a review of the government’s decade-old strategy of outfitting local police forces with military equipment, the White House concluded that the vast majority of these transfers strengthen local policing, but that the government should impose consistent standards in the types of hardware it offers, better training in how to use it and more thorough oversight.

Mr. Obama announced the steps at a cabinet meeting that was called to deal with lingering tensions from fiery clashes between the police and protesters in Ferguson, Mo., which broke out after a grand jury declined to indict a police officer for fatally shooting an unarmed black teenager

Mr. Obama is also meeting on Monday with civil rights leaders and law enforcement officials to discuss the stubborn mistrust between the police and the public in African-American communities. But the White House said that the president would not visit Ferguson this week, as a tense calm has prevailed there.

The Flow of Money and Equipment To Local Police

Following two weeks of images from protests in Ferguson, Mo., where police officers deployed military gear and equipment to quell unrest, President Obama ordered a review of several federal programs that provide money and equipment to local police.

The limited nature of the White House’s response testifies to the reality that transferring military-style gear to police departments remains politically popular in Congress and with the municipalities. While Congress held hearings after the initial unrest in Ferguson last summer, it has not acted to curb its grants and transfers of such equipment.

The militarization of the police is part of a broader counterterrorism strategy of fortifying American cities, which took root after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Curtailing the transfers, experts said, would be a reversal of years of policy and has little support in Congress.

With no legislation on the horizon, Mr. Obama has focused instead on standardizing regulations across the federal agencies that supply the equipment to cities and towns. He will also seek to improve training and require “after action” reports for accidents involving federally funded equipment.

The report, the White House said, found “a lack of consistency in how federal programs are structured, implemented and audited.” Criticism of the practices swelled after the police, in full body armor and on heavily armed vehicles, confronted protesters with assault rifles.

But administration officials noted that only 4 percent of the surplus equipment that comes from the Pentagon is actually combat-ready hardware. Most of it is office equipment.
Continue reading the main story Write A Comment
To bolster local policing, the government also announced a $263 million program that will provide up to 50,000 body cameras for the police. The video footage from these cameras could clarify disputed incidents like the deadly encounter between the teenager in Ferguson, Michael Brown, and the police officer, Darren Wilson.

The White House’s moves came on a carefully orchestrated day of meetings to telegraph a robust White House response to the unrest in Ferguson. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. was to travel to Atlanta on Monday evening to meet with law enforcement officials and community leaders, the first stop on what officials said would be a nationwide tour.

The president also announced the formation of a task force to improve local policing. Its chairmen will be the commissioner of the Philadelphia police, Charles H. Ramsey, and a leading criminal law scholar, Laurie Robinson, of George Mason University.

[manolo]

Now, imagine the cost savings to society of making it illegal for people who can not safely operate motorcycles over, say, 30 horsepower from buying motorcycles over 30 horsepower. What's not to like?

SM,

Such legislation is already in place. Motorcycle driving tests in the UK are graded according to engine capacity, so that new riders have to spend some time on a smaller bike before moving to a more powerful machine. Engine limiters can be fitted to larger bikes to keep the power to 33 bhp until the rider has passed the next level of test.

Similarly with firearms, those people wishing to own them are required to show competence and responsibility. A visit from the police is required, at the applicants home; character references are required and usually membership of an approved rifle club or evidence of private land for shooting.

The law is quite flexible in some regards. For example, I can legally ride a dedicated race bike on the road (no lights, no mirrors etc) of any power level provided I ride it during the daylight hours. This is known as a 'daytime MOT'.

Something that surprised me is that a modern compound crossbow does not require a license or any form of safety training here in the UK. I think this anomaly may date back to the Magna Carta and the archers of England. Few people are aware that they can own a weapon that kills a deer easily at 100yds. Unfortunately I am limited by my own legislator (Mrs Manolo) who won't allow one in the house.

Alex.

[manolo]

I understand. I was just curious. In some areas, the idea of telling people to self-segregate would be viewed considerably less favorably than in other areas.

SM,

It wasn't an easy message to share, but needs must, and it hit the spot. In fact, I have done it in other circumstances. In the present case I was in a predominantly black inner city area. On another occasion I was a in a predominantly white rural (might be called 'redneck' area) and there was a similar dynamic. Other trainers were offering cv's and all kinds of fancy college ideas and I was looking at a room full of unemployed groundworkers.

These guys had no time for paperwork, and no inclination. Times had become hard and their usual 'word of mouth' work had dried up. Again, we had to talk about how to get work on your own patch. I was never afraid to investigate alternatives, including moonlighting, along with regular stuff like forklift licences, HGV and the like. Mostly it meant the same as with the inner city folks, which is getting under the surface in your own area and comfort zone. Just yesterday I saw a guy I knew as unemployed, who had served time for drug offences, back at work! He is doing some complex stonemasonry on a chimney stack. He's good too.

My adage in those days, and still today, is 'Birds of a feather flock together'. My curse, or gift, is that I can move easily between flocks but never settle.

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

Alex,

True enough, birds of a feather do flock together. Human nature is very consistent everywhere.

Interesting that in the UK you have "crossbow rights" and in the US we have "gun rights." Almost makes one think the UK existed before the US. Who knew?

I would imagine that if you slung a crossbow over your shoulder and walked into a bar over there, it would be viewed as more of a conversation starter than a threat. The same would be true here with a rifle in many rural areas. In an urban area, it would be asking for trouble.

You obviously also suffer from a group ID problems and oppression over there. The Manolo PAC needs to organize a group protest against the oppressive Mrs. Manolo elitists!! good luck!

I think the old axiom of “A well armed society is a polite society” is obviously true. Two thought experiments:
1. Tomorrow you decide to change occupations and become a human predator. You plan to mug people and burglarize their houses. You live on the border of two counties. One county makes it very difficult to buy firearms or obtain concealed carry permits. The other county is the opposite and a much higher percentage of the population is armed and carrying. Does that factor into where you plan to search for victims?
2. You’re big, strong young man who is handy with his fists. You enjoy having a few beers and starting fights. You arrive at a new town and notice there are only two bar/grills. One has a sign that says “Concealed Carry Customers Not Welcome!” The other has a sign that says “Concealed Carry Customers Receive 10% Discount!" Does that influence your intended behavior in the bar/grill?

Not surprisingly, the areas of the US that have the highest rates of violent crime, often have the most restrictive gun laws. Now which is the chicken and which is the egg is a fair argument. The bizarre aspect is many of these areas are extremely lax in enforcing existing laws. A friend of mine from England says this is not uncommon over there also. His reasoning is if the officer can get the victim to not report the crime, the local stats improve which makes the local police look like they are doing a better job.

Thankfully, most of these "gun violence" problems in the US are localized, the erroneous PR in my mind is the group identity labels. To myself, and I imagine, also to many Americans, the statement that “America has a gun violence problem” probably sounds the same as an American saying “Europe has a No-Go Zone problem” to a European.

If you are curious enough to spend a couple hours researching, pick up John Lott’s book More guns, Less crime.

Individuals causing problems, laws not being enforced against the individuals responsible, massive group identity “solutions” and “protests.” It sounds more often than not a quest for power and money, rather than a genuine effort to solve problems.

[manolo]

Individuals causing problems, laws not being enforced against the individuals responsible, massive group identity “solutions” and “protests.” It sounds more often than not a quest for power and money, rather than a genuine effort to solve problems.

SM,

I didn't get much power and money from my time as a trade union official, but I saw through a few protests and feel good about that, especially when we won. A trade unionist sees a lot of frightened people. For me it was the look in the eyes; those of the worker who was getting a fair pension deal because of me and those of the employers who saw they had to make it.

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

Individuals causing problems, laws not being enforced against the individuals responsible, massive group identity “solutions” and “protests.” It sounds more often than not a quest for power and money, rather than a genuine effort to solve problems.

SM,

I didn't get much power and money from my time as a trade union official, but I saw through a few protests and feel good about that, especially when we won. A trade unionist sees a lot of frightened people. For me it was the look in the eyes; those of the worker who was getting a fair pension deal because of me and those of the employers who saw they had to make it.

Alex.

I agree that there are good unions and bad unions, they do reflect their members/leaders after all. We all know what people are like.... and as some have noticed, power corrupts.

My experience with the UAW union was much the opposite of yours. I witnessed a lot of coercion, suppression of the weak and the few, quashing of personal initiative..... turn off your morals and your brain, and we will pay you extra $ per hour. Scabs also get frightened, and sometimes they get their property destroyed and beat up! Bizarrely enough. all in the name of brotherhood and standing up for the little guy.

A dog pack forms to defend themselves against a lion, and cheers their victory. Of course, they also do the same when the pack later kills a house cat.... or a dog that does not belong to the pack. Similar behavior exists in humans.

The truly unworkable ideology, seems to me, more implementation of rules for the far away others, that are not working in the immediate neighborhood with the locals. In the instance of gun laws, the mayor of say NYC or Detroit, demanding that VA impose stricter gun laws to reduce local murder rates. If that was a workable solution, would not the murder rates be higher in the region with the more permissive gun laws?

Always less embarrassing to say "my problems are caused by someone else" rather than answer the question of "why are the problems you that you have locally, virtually non-existent in the other region that you claim is contributing to your problems?"

Hmmm.... gun as inanimate object of force multiplication, use determined by wielder, union as inanimate method of force multiplication, use determined by wielder.... almost a pattern.....

[Heracleum Persicum]

j1ka4oKu1jo



New York Post

A Staten Island grand jury has decided not to indict NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo for the July 17 death of Eric Garner, according to the New York Post.

Garner, who was unarmed at the time of his death, died after Pantaleo put him in a chokehold as multiple NYPD officers tried to detain him for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes. A medical examiner ruled his death a homicide.

Last week, a different grand jury decided not to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson for the August 9 shooting of Michael Brown.

.

scary

Doc, poor Blacks, poor blacks


.

[Doc]

j1ka4oKu1jo



New York Post

A Staten Island grand jury has decided not to indict NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo for the July 17 death of Eric Garner, according to the New York Post.

Garner, who was unarmed at the time of his death, died after Pantaleo put him in a chokehold as multiple NYPD officers tried to detain him for allegedly selling untaxed cigarettes. A medical examiner ruled his death a homicide.

Last week, a different grand jury decided not to indict Ferguson, Missouri, police officer Darren Wilson for the August 9 shooting of Michael Brown.

.

scary

Doc, poor Blacks, poor blacks


.

This what they should be protesting.

[manolo]

Folks,

I saw this as well. Looks like we may need a generic thread to cover cop on black killings if this goes on.

Alex.

[manolo]

Hmmm.... gun as inanimate object of force multiplication, use determined by wielder, union as inanimate method of force multiplication, use determined by wielder.... almost a pattern.....

SM,

You forgot 'democratically elected government'. I'm surprised at that.

Alex.

[Simple Minded]

Hmmm.... gun as inanimate object of force multiplication, use determined by wielder, union as inanimate method of force multiplication, use determined by wielder.... almost a pattern.....

SM,

You forgot 'democratically elected government'. I'm surprised at that.

Alex.

good point. You seem to forget I'm simple minded.

Didn't the dog pack analogy cover that? How to get the most powerful pack to morally restrict it's exercise of power.....

[Simple Minded]

scary

Doc, poor Blacks, poor blacks


.

This what they should be protesting.

Not just blacks, but everyone in NYC. I have often been apprehensive when in NYC. Cops & natives can both be scary.

To be fair, I was there during the bad years, back when Detroit was considered a great place and NYC a place to avoid. Trends may be reversing.

[Doc]

scary

Doc, poor Blacks, poor blacks


.

This what they should be protesting.

Not just blacks, but everyone in NYC. I have often been apprehensive when in NYC. Cops & natives can both be scary.

To be fair, I was there during the bad years, back when Detroit was considered a great place and NYC a place to avoid. Trends may be reversing.

Indeed The important color in that video is Blue. Note that some of the Police in the video were black. The police were enforcing a liberal conceived tax on cigarettes that makes a $5 pack $13 dollars. The liberal politicians of NYC had to have their money and thus pushed the police to go after people selling out of state cigarettes. Eric Garner's death is a direct result of those "Liberal" policies.

The left wing governor of Maryland called in the ATF to sit on Maryland's southern borders to stop people of Maryland from bringing cigarettes from Virginia. IF anyone has two cartons or more of Virginia Cigarettes in their car and the ATF pulls them over they are given a choice of surrendering the cigarettes or having their car and any cash they have seized on the spot. Meaning months of litigation to get the car back and thousands in legal bills. Not to mention being stranded.

In Ferguson the uniting theme should be the police used ObamaAPCs initially to try to intimidate basically peaceful protesters. I noticed some of the protesters chanting "THis is what democracy looks like" They should have been chanting "We are what Americans look like, DAMN IT !!"

[Simple Minded]

Indeed The important color in that video is Blue. Note that some of the Police in the video were black. The police were enforcing a liberal conceived tax on cigarettes that makes a $5 pack $13 dollars. The liberal politicians of NYC had to have their money and thus pushed the police to go after people selling out of state cigarettes. Eric Garner's death is a direct result of those "Liberal" policies.

The left wing governor of Maryland called in the ATF to sit on Maryland's southern borders to stop people of Maryland from bringing cigarettes from Virginia. IF anyone has two cartons or more of Virginia Cigarettes in their car and the ATF pulls them over they are given a choice of surrendering the cigarettes or having their car and any cash they have seized on the spot. Meaning months of litigation to get the car back and thousands in legal bills. Not to mention being stranded.

In Ferguson the uniting theme should be the police used ObamaAPCs initially to try to intimidate basically peaceful protesters. I noticed some of the protesters chanting "THis is what democracy looks like" They should have been chanting "We are what Americans look like, DAMN IT !!"

According to Google, a pack of cigs in NYC is $12-14, and back home in Rochester, NY they are about $9.

Two of my three brothers smoke. A few years back, the smoker who now lives in CA was stunned when he stopped in a convenient store in Rochester and they wanted $9 a pack. He complained to the other non-smoking brother and I. We looked at each other and both said "$9 a pack. Wow! You're even stupider than I thought you were. We would have guessed cost was about $1.50 a pack." Yep we're all old now.

Moral of the story: Never seek sympathy from your brothers or your father for engaging in self-destructive behavior. Reply is likely to be Boo-effing-hoo!

http://www.theawl.com/2013/07/what-a-pa ... e-by-state

For an alternative binoid headline, there is always "Greedy Gargantuan Extreme Leftist Police State Kills Local Minority Libertarian Entrepreneur.

Specific events are never as interesting as the packaging/labeling/marketing.

[Doc]

Did Anti-Tobacco Laws Kill Eric Garner?

Smokers' rights activist says 'lifestyle police' are guilty of murder.

By Steven Nelson

Dec. 4, 2014 | 5:51 p.m. EST

New York City’s leading smokers' rights activist, Audrey Silk, says anti-tobacco politicians have blood on their hands following the controversial death of Eric Garner.

The street-vending entrepreneur died July 17 after a confrontation with police who suspected he was selling untaxed loose cigarettes, a crime for which he previously had been arrested many times.

Officer Daniel Pantaleo, recorded on videotape choking Garner into submission while he said "I can't breathe" numerous times, was cleared of wrongdoing by a grand jury Wednesday, sparking nationwide protests.

“Everybody’s misdirecting the blame and the ones to blame the most are being so quiet,” says Silk, founder of Citizens Lobbying Against Smoker Harassment, also known as NYC Clash.

“Is it the police’s fault? Yeah," says Silk. "But it's not the NYPD, it’s the lifestyle police.”

It's a point that others, including libertarians, are making on social media.

Silk worked 20 years as a New York City cop before retiring in 2004 and says many members of her advocacy organization consider police evil. But she says she is not convinced Pantaleo acted improperly, as it was his job to arrest people for violating laws, even those to which she objects.

New York’s sky-high cigarette taxes drive many people to buy individual cigarettes on the street instead of in 20-cigarette packs.

Silk says loose cigarettes - or “loosies” - were always available in New York, generally at the neighborhood bodega. Now, she says, high taxes have made “buttlegging” of loosies - often purchased in lower-tax jurisdictions - a significant business opportunity. In November 2013 then-Mayor Michael Bloomberg signed legislation to raise the city's tobacco age from 18 to 21, possibly swelling the black market consumer base.

“This is the elephant in the room,” says Silk, who in December lit a cigarette at a press conference to protest Bloomberg banning e-cigarette use in public places.

“The antismokers from Bloomberg on down are standing there like frozen statues - ‘don’t look at me, don’t look at me’ - because they are the ultimate blame points,” she says. “Really it’s the anti-smoking crusaders, they are guilty of murder, it all comes back to them.”


[ALSO: House Republicans Defend E-Cigarette Industry]

Silk’s activist group is suing to overturn the city’s e-cigarette use ban, but she’s not optimistic city politicians will ever voluntarily rescind anti-tobacco laws or enforcement of the policies, even with Garner's death earning both new scrutiny.

“We’re up against a cult mentality when it comes to the war on smokers,” she says.

The handful of Republicans on the city council who might be skeptical of the policies, Silk says, aren’t likely to seize Garner’s death as an opportunity to rethink the laws.

Silk isn’t alone in fuming about the role of New York City tobacco laws in contributing to Garner’s death. Along with numerous commentators on social media, likely 2016 presidential candidate Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., also weighed in.

Protesters march through the streets in response to the grand jury's decision in the Eric Garner case in Times Square in New York City on Wednesday, Dec. 3, 2014. The panel did not indict officer Daniel Pantaleo despite a city medical examiner's report that ruled Garner's death a homicide and found that a chokehold contributed to it.


"It's also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes," Paul told MSNBC. "So they've driven cigarettes underground so as not to make them so expensive. … But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, 'Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette.' And for someone to die over you know breaking that law -- there really is no excuse for it."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... ric-garner

[noddy]

classic, i like that spin.

[Simple Minded]

that is a great spin. Thanks Doc. I had not heard that one.

As the only representative of the world's smallest minority... me, I gotta tell you, it is easy getting persecuted, but with all the competition from all the other minority groups, it is hell getting noticed as a victim.

I saw where this guy was arrested 31 times. If that is true, he must have been on a first name basis with every officer in the precinct. I wonder if the guy who put him in the choke hold got kicked in the balls during a previous arrest.

This accident sounds a lot like me and my brothers imitating Dick the Bulldog Brower in the living room, somebody accidently getting a real tomahawk chop to the face, getting pissed off, and things getting out of hand.

Does not sound like a random incident between strangers.

Lots of groups can band together against NYC, as well as the NYPD on this one.