On the Nature of Things | Forum

Golden showers.

The only proximate reality is the large number of Clintonites wetting their pants in public.

The buzzfeed material was astonishing in that anyone would ever believe it. It was too fantastical. I believe some bad things about Bill Clinton but the American Spectator in the 90's printed stuff that wasn't realistic. The sex scandal stuff in buzzfeed in this case just wasn't anything you would find in reality. And I spent almost 24 hours on Twitter watching liberals believing every word of it.

And the Putin 5 year grooming of Trump was straight out of mad magazine. Putin hypnotizes/blackmails Trump into running for President as his puppet then hypnotizes the US population into giving him the electoral college win and popular vote loss from the other side of the world.

And liberals have spent a few months now believing every word of that lunacy.

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Who Put Trump in the White House ?
The Democratic Party has been collapsing for years,
but no one noticed before Trump came along.

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Consequences of Failure

This time, however, the falling Demo­cratic vote meant the victory not of a run-of-the-mill conservative or even a tea-bagger, but of a racist demagogue bent on doing serious damage. And he will.

There will be resistance. Rather, there will be increased resistance. And this will offer new possibilities for organizing, even in a more hostile atmosphere. At the same time many, including not a few on the socialist left, will run for cover in the Democratic Party’s big tent, arguing that now is not the time to take on the Democrats, that the great task is to elect a Democratic congress, any Democratic congress, in 2018 to rein in Trump just as the Republicans blocked Obama after 2010, and so on.

But such a political direction will only reinforce the Democrats’ neoliberalism, digital-dependency, and failed strategies. We had better bear in mind what this approach has not done for the past four decades and will not do in the coming years.

It will not significantly or permanently increase voter turnout for working-class people, especially African-American and Latino voters. The rate of voter turnout has fallen for the past few decades and particularly for off-year congressional elections.

Both black and Latino rates of voter participation in off-year elections, long below average, have nose-dived since 2010 and did not recover in 2016 despite the threat of a Trump victory.

Nor will the centrist liberalism, much less neoliberalism, of Democratic incumbents and most likely candidates win back those white working-class people or those in union households who have been voting Republican for decades, much less the recent angry Trump converts.

Politics as usual have failed! Who put Trump in the White House ? The Democrats.

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Lol the only people who didn't notice the collapse of the Democrat party were people living in the bubble. When they learn that Donald Trump is not racist, not a demagogue and is helping everyone then liberalism and Democratism will be dead.

FT | A warning for the losers of the liberal elite

The curse of our time is fake maths. Think of it as fake news for numerically literate intellectuals: it is the abuse of statistics and economic models to peddle one’s own political prejudice.

Fake maths has given us, the liberal establishment, the illusion of certainty. Once the illusion crumbles, we are left with an uncomfortable question: is it possible that some populist demagogues will end up producing better economic policy than our friends in Davos? Take Italy as an example. The euro has been a disaster for the economy. If a populist were to win the Italian election, force a euro exit and default on foreign investors, is it not at least possible they would spur a genuine economic recovery? I do not know the answer; I know for sure that the present regime will not.

my main focus when voting is wishing my lifestyle was reduced to the global average and that i am under maximum stress to be competitive against a global job market with no bottom.

i owe it to the rich flickers who run the lump of land i was born on to work harder for less.

noddy wrote:my main focus when voting is wishing my lifestyle was reduced to the global average and that i am under maximum stress to be competitive against a global job market with no bottom.

i owe it to the rich flickers who run the lump of land i was born on to work harder for less.

You don't lack for company . . .

2017 Edelman Trust Barometer Reveals Global Implosion of Trust

noddy wrote:my main focus when voting is wishing my lifestyle was reduced to the global average and that i am under maximum stress to be competitive against a global job market with no bottom.

i owe it to the rich flickers who run the lump of land i was born on to work harder for less.

Your whining has no basis in fact. In no developed country has the standard of living experienced any meaningful decline. And certainly for me personally, I can't think of any way in which I am worse off than the Baby Boomer generation. I'm better educated, richer, better traveled, eat better, and have better access to casual sex with women from all corners of the globe.

Lol that explains why left wing incumbent parties are getting crushed all over the developed world. Because things are so good. You should revisit the better educated part of your claims then we will revisit the rest.

Typhoon wrote:FT | A warning for the losers of the liberal elite

The curse of our time is fake maths. Think of it as fake news for numerically literate intellectuals: it is the abuse of statistics and economic models to peddle one’s own political prejudice.

Fake maths has given us, the liberal establishment, the illusion of certainty. Once the illusion crumbles, we are left with an uncomfortable question: is it possible that some populist demagogues will end up producing better economic policy than our friends in Davos? Take Italy as an example. The euro has been a disaster for the economy. If a populist were to win the Italian election, force a euro exit and default on foreign investors, is it not at least possible they would spur a genuine economic recovery? I do not know the answer; I know for sure that the present regime will not.

The insular bubble these people live in might be some sort of record.

Appealing to the ignorant whims of the masses doesn't make you correct. People don't know how well they have it, and have a tendency to make things worse for themselves when they vote in ignorance. Since the introduction of modern democracy, it has happened time and time again, and seems to be happening once more.

If more people thought and acted as I do, they would be better off.

I should have made it clear i was not speaking of myself specifically

my job isnt under danger from overseas competition because i have found a comfy little skilled niche however alot of the lower end IT jobs are being stripped to the bone, which has left the workers who retrained into the 'smart' economy quite miffed.

Typhoon wrote:

noddy wrote:my main focus when voting is wishing my lifestyle was reduced to the global average and that i am under maximum stress to be competitive against a global job market with no bottom.

i owe it to the rich flickers who run the lump of land i was born on to work harder for less.

You don't lack for company . . .

2017 Edelman Trust Barometer Reveals Global Implosion of Trust

it is the stated goal of the excercise, its quite cheeky to claim any different, basic minimum jobs scale quite well with population size but better paying jobs are sporadically created and follow the world economy not the local one.

Zack Morris wrote:

noddy wrote:my main focus when voting is wishing my lifestyle was reduced to the global average and that i am under maximum stress to be competitive against a global job market with no bottom.

i owe it to the rich flickers who run the lump of land i was born on to work harder for less.

Your whining has no basis in fact. In no developed country has the standard of living experienced any meaningful decline. And certainly for me personally, I can't think of any way in which I am worse off than the Baby Boomer generation. I'm better educated, richer, better traveled, eat better, and have better access to casual sex with women from all corners of the globe.

plenty of facts, you just find them boring and not applicable to you.

which is nice.

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Trump meddling in German politics will backfire badly .. in fact, that is what Merkel needed

German middle class prosperous, affluent, highly skilled, not at all "Trump type of Joe", pretty much contrary

That is why, Trump might be helping for a landslide for Merkel

If so, European continent will circle around Germany, reject UK and any East European nation on Trump train

Russia will be the winner

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Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


Trump meddling in German politics will backfire badly .. in fact, that is what Merkel needed

German middle class prosperous, affluent, highly skilled, not at all "Trump type of Joe", pretty much contrary

That is why, Trump might be helping for a landslide for Merkel

If so, European continent will circle around Germany, reject UK and any East European nation on Trump train

Russia will be the winner

.

e2cjVhUrmII

Zack Morris wrote:Appealing to the ignorant whims of the masses doesn't make you correct.

lol that is the historic tactic of the Democrat Party, don't complain now.

People don't know how well they have it,

Who knows, what we do know though is that you and your party are in the way of making things better. We have 8 years of failure staring us in the face.

and have a tendency to make things worse for themselves when they vote in ignorance.

Yeah. 2008 was a HUGE mistake.

Obama was

One
Big
@$$
Mistake,
America

Since the introduction of modern democracy, it has happened time and time again, and seems to be happening once more.

If more people thought and acted as I do, they would be better off.

So make up your mind please, things are going well or are things going poorly. You are directly on 2 sides of the issue.

Back to the OP question, any evidence or anecdotes to support the assertion?

noddy wrote:
plenty of facts, you just find them boring and not applicable to you.

which is nice.

noddy, you don't understand the culture of the "locals."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCv8-qGuINU

Simple Minded wrote:Back to the OP question, any evidence or anecdotes to support the assertion?

was reading this a bit earlier.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... tsu9v.html

A disillusioned public that believes the system is rigged against ordinary people wants a strong leader to break the rules, wrest power back from the elites and close the doors to the rest of the world.

No, this isn't Trump's America. This is Australia, according to new research examining the global rise of populism.

Notably, Australians were more likely than most around the world to want a strong leader to take the country back, with 71 per cent of Australian respondents supporting this statement, compared with 69 per cent in the US, 67 per cent in Great Britain and 63 per cent globally.

some interesting graphs, apparently only the germans and the swedes are happy with the status quo.

noddy wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Back to the OP question, any evidence or anecdotes to support the assertion?

was reading this a bit earlier.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... tsu9v.html

A disillusioned public that believes the system is rigged against ordinary people wants a strong leader to break the rules, wrest power back from the elites and close the doors to the rest of the world.

No, this isn't Trump's America. This is Australia, according to new research examining the global rise of populism.

Notably, Australians were more likely than most around the world to want a strong leader to take the country back, with 71 per cent of Australian respondents supporting this statement, compared with 69 per cent in the US, 67 per cent in Great Britain and 63 per cent globally.

some interesting graphs, apparently only the germans and the swedes are happy with the status quo.

Very interesting. I would have expected a wider spread between the nations on each question. The foolishness of assuming a national "group identity" exists in all but the smallest of nations I suppose.

Whenever I hear about "What Americans think?" or "American culture is _________," my first thought is "What zip code are you talking about?" Interestingly enough, it may or may not sound like any of the places I have lived in the US. Us natives can be surprisingly ignant.

US politicians in DC, in attempting to create a national identity, may have sown the seeds of their own destruction. Similar to the EU'ers in Brussels?

It would be interesting to breakdown all these questions by individuals, to find out if individuals who are "plugged in" are more likely to be "the cup is half full" optimists, or "the cup is half empty" pessimists. Also how much the world view of each individual is determined by which websites that specific individual chooses to frequent.

Is the "average Fred" (good luck determining that) pessimistic or optimistic due to reality or cyberspace? I suspect it is a very local phenomena. My neighbor hood sucks, therefore my country sucks.

Thinking in terms of OTNOT'ers, Endovelico, wisely, will never step foot on the continental US again, due to the excessive national gun violence he reads about on the internet, while Typhoon recklessly visits the killing fields of Chicago (which according to the internet has a gun violence rate two orders of magnitude higher than most of the US) on a periodic basis. How long does it take him to get a suit of chain-mail thru customs?

http://www.by-the-sword.com/p-597-butte ... shirt.aspx

Looking at the survey, not surprisingly, Canada wants a wall.... obviously, Canadians are following Zack's posts.

It's only 440 miles from NYC to Ottawa........

Stop The Presses! or whatever it is they use to pump electrons into cyberspace....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... rvey-finds

Has anyone else notices a trend like this?

Simple Minded wrote:Stop The Presses! or whatever it is they use to pump electrons into cyberspace....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... rvey-finds

Has anyone else notices a trend like this?

I have been seeing this trend for decades. When the government bureaucracy is more interested in serving the needs of its employees, that are not really interested in doing their jobs, what else is to be expected?

Their idea of serving the public ==> "Hi We are from government and we are here to help..... bust your balls"

Simple Minded wrote:

noddy wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Back to the OP question, any evidence or anecdotes to support the assertion?

was reading this a bit earlier.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... tsu9v.html

A disillusioned public that believes the system is rigged against ordinary people wants a strong leader to break the rules, wrest power back from the elites and close the doors to the rest of the world.

No, this isn't Trump's America. This is Australia, according to new research examining the global rise of populism.

Notably, Australians were more likely than most around the world to want a strong leader to take the country back, with 71 per cent of Australian respondents supporting this statement, compared with 69 per cent in the US, 67 per cent in Great Britain and 63 per cent globally.

some interesting graphs, apparently only the germans and the swedes are happy with the status quo.

Very interesting. I would have expected a wider spread between the nations on each question. The foolishness of assuming a national "group identity" exists in all but the smallest of nations I suppose.

Whenever I hear about "What Americans think?" or "American culture is _________," my first thought is "What zip code are you talking about?" Interestingly enough, it may or may not sound like any of the places I have lived in the US. Us natives can be surprisingly ignant.

US politicians in DC, in attempting to create a national identity, may have sown the seeds of their own destruction. Similar to the EU'ers in Brussels?

It would be interesting to breakdown all these questions by individuals, to find out if individuals who are "plugged in" are more likely to be "the cup is half full" optimists, or "the cup is half empty" pessimists. Also how much the world view of each individual is determined by which websites that specific individual chooses to frequent.

Is the "average Fred" (good luck determining that) pessimistic or optimistic due to reality or cyberspace? I suspect it is a very local phenomena. My neighbor hood sucks, therefore my country sucks.

Thinking in terms of OTNOT'ers, Endovelico, wisely, will never step foot on the continental US again, due to the excessive national gun violence he reads about on the internet, while Typhoon recklessly visits the killing fields of Chicago (which according to the internet has a gun violence rate two orders of magnitude higher than most of the US) on a periodic basis. How long does it take him to get a suit of chain-mail thru customs?

http://www.by-the-sword.com/p-597-butte ... shirt.aspx

Looking at the survey, not surprisingly, Canada wants a wall.... obviously, Canadians are following Zack's posts.

It's only 440 miles from NYC to Ottawa........

the biggest statistic missing from these surveys is the libertarian vs socialist one - that would split the ~70% of angries in 2 camps of 30->40% and give good clues as to why we are in the mess we are in

<squabbling about government being the problem or the solution goes ere>

noddy wrote:
the biggest statistic missing from these surveys is the libertarian vs socialist one - that would split the ~70% of angries in 2 camps of 30->40% and give good clues as to why we are in the mess we are in

<squabbling about government being the problem or the solution goes ere>

I suspect that in countries of significant size, say greater than 15 million people & 200,000 square miles, variation within each nation is greater than variation shown between the highest scoring nation and lowest scoring nation. I suspect it is only the controlling parties that prevent these larger nations from naturally evolving into nations with 6 or 7 or more political parties, or even smaller nation states. It will be interesting to see if they can continue to do so.

Also in areas such as NYC, one may rub shoulders with someone wearing a $300,000 watch and a homeless person within the space of a few blocks. Therefore, I would expect those residents to more vocal proselytizers of the the unfairness of life/current system/whateverism, than residents of other locations.

I take the above libertarian/socialist split to be the same as "I take credit/blame for my quality of life" vs. "I think society takes credit/blame for my quality of life."

That is the biggest split I have ever seen in people. Seems more philosophical than political. In most cases, me thinks, more due to childhood conditioning or genetics, than due to any external current event.

I still reserve the right to blame my parents for everything.

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Another angle for "Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal"


Time to Be a Woman Than a Man

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Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Another angle for "Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal"


Time to Be a Woman Than a Man

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so does Chelsea Manning and Caitlin Jenner...... Chaz Bono dissents...