MGTOW | Men Going Their Own Way

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The APA is a body of functionaries who wish to control all normative questions. To do so, they must constantly campaign to advertise that, as a body, they are on the right (usually the best financed) side of any issue which is currently fashionable.

It has always been the case since its founding in the 1880s.

Beyond the problem of a lack of insight, is our inability to, in the words of kids today, deplatform them. There are no consequences for their quackery. Which also makes them a perfect organization to bolster appeals to authority.

Sort of like how the media and Fortune 500 companies have handed off "hate" to the mail-order scam Southern Poverty Law Center, which has grown ever more powerful because of its irrelevancy.

The same thing has happened with the APA, and similar organizations, which have become ever more entrenched as institutional pillars in proportion to its growing replication crisis of its academic disciplines and its decades long decline on the practitioners' side of things.

The APA is like any other scientific or medical organization: arbiters of fact when they agree with my preconceptions, politically motivated quacks and loons when they don't.

Doesn't the APA realize that men and boys are "under attack!?!?!" All the misogyny and violence is just men defending themselves against the loony left. Men need to embrace their traditional dominant roles, as long as they don't get too ethnic about it.

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

[Ibrahim]

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

I don't know what that means. I'm always behind on the latest terminology. I just learned "virtue signaling" but I haven't figured out "intersectionality" yet.

[Nonc Hilaire]

The APA is a trade union. It is run by the academic old guard. A status position. Psychology has at least 20 subgroups and clinical psychology is a oddball and distinct minority.

Really, nobody cares about APA's philosophical posturing. If the psychiatrists in the AMA pick this up then it is time to get concerned.

[noddy]

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

I don't know what that means. I'm always behind on the latest terminology. I just learned "virtue signaling" but I haven't figured out "intersectionality" yet.

intersectionality is the old schoolyard joke of the one legged, black, lesbian jew made into a political platform

[Simple Minded]

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

I don't know what that means. I'm always behind on the latest terminology. I just learned "virtue signaling" but I haven't figured out "intersectionality" yet.

intersectionality is the old schoolyard joke of the one legged, black, lesbian jew made into a political platform

if we could get that word down to one or two syllables, count me in.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

I don't know what that means. I'm always behind on the latest terminology. I just learned "virtue signaling" but I haven't figured out "intersectionality" yet.

Or your drowning in it.

I'm not using any terminology. I'm saying you dived right in to the lake and began to splash water over nothin'.

Nothing I said in passing fits your presumptuous strawman.

And I am confused how saying that the APA has always been staffed by quack-functionaries is bad-faith selectivity on my part. The whole trade union has been rotten from the start- from 1880s on- I'm not cherry-picking anything from 'em.

[Ibrahim]

Impressive pier jumping, I'll give you that.

I don't know what that means. I'm always behind on the latest terminology. I just learned "virtue signaling" but I haven't figured out "intersectionality" yet.

Or your drowning in it.

I'm not using any terminology. I'm saying you dived right in to the lake and began to splash water over nothin'.

Nothing I said in passing fits your presumptuous strawman.

And I am confused how saying that the APA has always been staffed by quack-functionaries is bad-faith selectivity on my part. The whole trade union has been rotten from the start- from 1880s on- I'm not cherry-picking anything from 'em.

I'm not saying anything about bad faith, only that we all prefer bodies of this sort when they conform to our views.

The last major scuffle over psychiatry that I recall was whether or not homosexuality should be considered a mental illness. Everybody had their own opinion, but nobody was reading scientific studies before voicing it. It was purely political. I know I didn't consult any peer-reviewed papers on the subject.

I wasn't singling you out in particular, just saying that this is how people approach these organizations. Its how they approach the Supreme Court for that matter, but that's another subject.

[Mr. Perfect]

I think it was easier to ignore the incels before they started committing mass-murders,

Fascinating. How many incel mass murderers have there been, say compared to Islamic mass murderers.

and more alarmingly for those uninitiated in the more disturbing parts of the internet, that the killers are lauded in the forums where these people congregate.

What would be an example of that.

[Mr. Perfect]

Presently mass-murders by "incels" and white nationalists are more frequent than those by Islamists in North America,

Really. What are numbers are you basing that on.

but I would agree that the motivations are similar. In both cases we are talking about frustrated young men who adopt a cargo cult version of traditional culture as an excuse or justification for what is ultimately nihilistic violence. Misogyny seems to be the common denominator of both groups, and other regional variations on extremism besides.

Osama Bin Laden as a misogynist? Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

[Ibrahim]

I think it was easier to ignore the incels before they started committing mass-murders,

Fascinating. How many incel mass murderers have there been, say compared to Islamic mass murderers.

You mean all-time? Give these incels a chance to catch up with ancient religious movements like Islam and Christianity in terms of generating mass-murders.

Presently mass-murders by "incels" and white nationalists are more frequent than those by Islamists in North America,

Really. What are numbers are you basing that on.

-From January 2008 to the end of 2016, we identified 63 cases of Islamist domestic terrorism, meaning incidents motivated by a theocratic political ideology espoused by such groups as the Islamic State. The vast majority of these (76 percent) were foiled plots, meaning no attack took place.

-During the same period, we found that right-wing extremists were behind nearly twice as many incidents: 115. Just over a third of these incidents (35 percent) were foiled plots. The majority were acts of terrorist violence that involved deaths, injuries or damaged property.

-Right-wing extremist terrorism was more often deadly: Nearly a third of incidents involved fatalities, for a total of 79 deaths, while 13 percent of Islamist cases caused fatalities. (The total deaths associated with Islamist incidents were higher, however, reaching 90, largely due to the 2009 mass shooting at Fort Hood in Texas.)

-Incidents related to left-wing ideologies, including ecoterrorism and animal rights, were comparatively rare, with 19 incidents causing seven fatalities – making the shooting attack on Republican members of Congress earlier this month somewhat of an anomaly.

-Nearly half (48 percent) of Islamist incidents in our database were sting operations, more than four times the rate for far-right (12 percent) or far-left (10.5 percent) incidents.

https://www.typeinvestigations.org/inve ... home-hate/
and a note of their methodology
https://www.typeinvestigations.org/inve ... incidents/

and more alarmingly for those uninitiated in the more disturbing parts of the internet, that the killers are lauded in the forums where these people congregate.

What would be an example of that.

Minutes before Alek Minassian allegedly launched Monday's deadly attack in Toronto, Canada, he posted to Facebook: "The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!"

Police have not yet confirmed any motive for the attack in which he is accused of murdering 10 people but his post on Facebook has drawn new attention to a mass murderer whose crimes inspired a dubious following.

[...]

On dedicated incel websites, users are split. Some disavow Rodgers but others admire him, seeking to rationalise and even celebrate his actions. Likewise the attack attributed to Alek Minassian.

Of the Toronto suspect, one post says: "I hope this guy wrote a manifesto because he could be our next new saint."

Another proclaims: "I will have one celebratory beer for every victim that turns out to be a young woman between 18-35."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189

Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

Thanks!

[Mr. Perfect]

You mean all-time? Give these incels a chance to catch up with ancient religious movements like Islam and Christianity in terms of generating mass-murders.

Would you like to put some money on it.

Presently mass-murders by "incels" and white nationalists are more frequent than those by Islamists in North America,

Really. What are numbers are you basing that on.

-From January 2008 to the end of 2016, we identified 63 cases of Islamist domestic terrorism, meaning incidents motivated by a theocratic political ideology espoused by such groups as the Islamic State. The vast majority of these (76 percent) were foiled plots, meaning no attack took place.

-During the same period, we found that right-wing extremists were behind nearly twice as many incidents: 115. Just over a third of these incidents (35 percent) were foiled plots. The majority were acts of terrorist violence that involved deaths, injuries or damaged property.

-Right-wing extremist terrorism was more often deadly: Nearly a third of incidents involved fatalities, for a total of 79 deaths, while 13 percent of Islamist cases caused fatalities. (The total deaths associated with Islamist incidents were higher, however, reaching 90, largely due to the 2009 mass shooting at Fort Hood in Texas.)

-Incidents related to left-wing ideologies, including ecoterrorism and animal rights, were comparatively rare, with 19 incidents causing seven fatalities – making the shooting attack on Republican members of Congress earlier this month somewhat of an anomaly.

-Nearly half (48 percent) of Islamist incidents in our database were sting operations, more than four times the rate for far-right (12 percent) or far-left (10.5 percent) incidents.

https://www.typeinvestigations.org/inve ... home-hate/
and a note of their methodology
https://www.typeinvestigations.org/inve ... incidents/

The writer of these articles works with the SPLC which recently had to settle a defamation lawsuit with this guy.

pcRlRt6JaIg

The also appear to have left out the Pulse nightclub shooing which killed 49 people in the name of Islam/Islamic State, for starters.

It would appear that "type investigations" is a purveyor of horse$#!.

and more alarmingly for those uninitiated in the more disturbing parts of the internet, that the killers are lauded in the forums where these people congregate.

What would be an example of that.

Minutes before Alek Minassian allegedly launched Monday's deadly attack in Toronto, Canada, he posted to Facebook: "The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!"

Police have not yet confirmed any motive for the attack in which he is accused of murdering 10 people but his post on Facebook has drawn new attention to a mass murderer whose crimes inspired a dubious following.

[...]

On dedicated incel websites, users are split. Some disavow Rodgers but others admire him, seeking to rationalise and even celebrate his actions. Likewise the attack attributed to Alek Minassian.

Of the Toronto suspect, one post says: "I hope this guy wrote a manifesto because he could be our next new saint."

Another proclaims: "I will have one celebratory beer for every victim that turns out to be a young woman between 18-35."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189

So 2 anonymous comment section quotes?

Thanks!

Sure. Just be careful which glass you drink out of.

E2y40U2LvKY

[Ibrahim]

You mean all-time? Give these incels a chance to catch up with ancient religious movements like Islam and Christianity in terms of generating mass-murders.

Would you like to put some money on it.

Sounds great. Let's meet back here in 1000 years for the results.

The writer of these articles works with the SPLC which recently had to settle a defamation lawsuit with this guy.

The SPLC is a fine organization. It makes sense that supporters of far-right politics don't like them though, and would support harassment lawsuits against them. Remember the alt-right/neo-nazi rule: free speech for us, censorship for everyone else.

The also appear to have left out the Pulse nightclub shooing which killed 49 people in the name of Islam/Islamic State, for starters.

What makes you think that?

On dedicated incel websites, users are split. Some disavow Rodgers but others admire him, seeking to rationalise and even celebrate his actions. Likewise the attack attributed to Alek Minassian.

Of the Toronto suspect, one post says: "I hope this guy wrote a manifesto because he could be our next new saint."

Another proclaims: "I will have one celebratory beer for every victim that turns out to be a young woman between 18-35."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189

So 2 anonymous comment section quotes?

Most misogynist forums are anonymous, and these types of comments are endemic. Don't take my word for it, a few second on Google should set you right.

[Nonc Hilaire]

I live in the Pulse shooting area. The international news coverage was wildly incorrect. The patsy was Muslim, but not religious. He attempted to join ISIS by phone during the event. There were at least two other shooters and someone holding the door closed who were never identified but were reported by survivors on local news interviews.

[noddy]

its a tag team thing to make sure the new surveillance state is constantly fed.

right wing gets fed mozzie horror stories, left wing gets fed neonazi horror stories, anyone that points out that both occur below the level of regular druggie/loon violence we have accepted for centuries gets accused of being one or the other, by the other.

one day folks are going to remember that any power you give your team, is available to the evil other team at the next election,.

[Mr. Perfect]

Sounds great. Let's meet back here in 1000 years for the results.

I'm willing to do it next year. I'm willing to place bets on incel mass murders for the year 2019.

The SPLC is a fine organization. It makes sense that supporters of far-right politics don't like them though, and would support harassment lawsuits against them. Remember the alt-right/neo-nazi rule: free speech for us, censorship for everyone else.

The SPLC is a fine organization that had to pay millions to someone that they slandered.

What makes you think that?

I couldn't find any reference to it, and their numbers didn't add up back of the envelope, for starters. They also seemed to include "white" and "racist" in "right wing" which of course is not the case.

They also left out the fact that Muslims being 1% or so of the population are almost 100 times more likely to commit terrorism than any other group they profiled. I think they did that on purpose.

Most misogynist forums are anonymous, and these types of comments are endemic. Don't take my word for it, a few second on Google should set you right.

I don't take your word for it.

[Mr. Perfect]

Muslim, but not religious.

Lol you would have to spell that out for me. Is that like an atheist Christian.

[Mr. Perfect]

its a tag team thing to make sure the new surveillance state is constantly fed.

right wing gets fed mozzie horror stories, left wing gets fed neonazi horror stories, anyone that points out that both occur below the level of regular druggie/loon violence we have accepted for centuries gets accused of being one or the other, by the other.

Not exactly, the MSM feeds the country their horror stories, and covers for Muslims. As NH alludes to, very few people know that Pulse nighclub attack was Muslim terrorism. He desperately tried to tell the world on the 9-11 call, and the media dutifully covered it up.

one day folks are going to remember that any power you give your team, is available to the evil other team at the next election,.

People seem to know that now but don't see to care.

[Apollonius]

The SPLC is a fine organization.

A demagogic bully - Mark Pulliam, City Journal, 27 July 2017
https://www.city-journal.org/html/demag ... 15370.html

The Southern Poverty Law Center demonizes respectable political opponents as “hate groups”—and keeps its coffers bulging.


... Critics of the SPLC accuse the lavishly funded organization of peddling fear and smearing political opponents—mostly conservatives—as bigots. Its “Hatewatch” list is avowedly ideological, acknowledging that it “monitors and exposes the activities of the American radical right.” Few left-wing organizations—and no Islamist groups—are branded in this way by the SPLC. Nevertheless, the SPLC, founded in 1971, has burrowed itself into the civil rights movement, the organized bar, the cloistered culture of large law firms, the education system, and even law enforcement as a champion for “the exploited, the powerless and the forgotten.” Its executives are richly compensated, some in excess of $400,000 annually. Operating from palatial six-story quarters in Montgomery, Alabama (sometimes called the “Poverty Palace”), it enjoys a $300 million endowment, including more than $23 million in cash. It fundraises ceaselessly. It’s no coincidence that SPLC co-founder Morris S. Dees Jr. has been inducted into the Direct Marketing Association’s Hall of Fame.

Despite numerous exposés over the years in publications spanning the political spectrum—including Harper’s, The Progressive, The Weekly Standard, Reason, the Baltimore Sun, and even the SPLC’s hometown newspaper, the Montgomery Advertiser—the liberal establishment continues to treat the group as credible, largely because its preoccupation with right-wing bigotry aligns with the stereotypical view of liberals who dominate newspapers like the Washington Post and New York Times. In our polarized culture, the epithet “hate group” is the ultimate slander of political opponents. The SPLC’s spurious imprimatur gives mere calumny gravitas, allowing liberal journalists to wield its highly charged judgments as a weapon, citing it as if it were a dispassionate authority. Many liberal (or merely lazy) journalists discredit conservative organizations by noting that they are “listed by the SPLC as a hate group,” treating its often dubious designations as gospel truth.

[Apollonius]

Mention has been made of the SPLC's famous 'Hate Map', which pinpoints localities in the U.S. where organizations (almost all of them with only a very few, maybe no, members) which promote hate.

But to repeat what was said then, their map is really just a map of organizations or groups that the SPLC wants their supporters, affiliates, and other viewers, especially in the 'respectable' media (eg., BBC, CNN, NYT) want you to hate.



Here are some better 'hate maps':

[Nonc Hilaire]

Muslim, but not religious.

Lol you would have to spell that out for me. Is that like an atheist Christian.

There are lots of athiests who identify as Christian. Look at the murderous, drug-running Latin gangs with their crosses and Lady of Guadalupe tattoos.

He was raised in a muslim family, pronounced shahadah as a youth etc. but as an adult his father constantly criticized his heavy drinking and not attending jumah. He was employed by an American mercenary company at the time of the shooting.

In Christian parlance we would call him a backslider who slid as far back as possible.

[Ibrahim]

The SPLC is a fine organization.

A demagogic bully - Mark Pulliam, City Journal, 27 July 2017
https://www.city-journal.org/html/demag ... 15370.html

The Southern Poverty Law Center demonizes respectable political opponents as “hate groups”—and keeps its coffers bulging.


... Critics of the SPLC accuse the lavishly funded organization of peddling fear and smearing political opponents—mostly conservatives—as bigots. Its “Hatewatch” list is avowedly ideological, acknowledging that it “monitors and exposes the activities of the American radical right.” Few left-wing organizations—and no Islamist groups—are branded in this way by the SPLC. Nevertheless, the SPLC, founded in 1971, has burrowed itself into the civil rights movement, the organized bar, the cloistered culture of large law firms, the education system, and even law enforcement as a champion for “the exploited, the powerless and the forgotten.” Its executives are richly compensated, some in excess of $400,000 annually. Operating from palatial six-story quarters in Montgomery, Alabama (sometimes called the “Poverty Palace”), it enjoys a $300 million endowment, including more than $23 million in cash. It fundraises ceaselessly. It’s no coincidence that SPLC co-founder Morris S. Dees Jr. has been inducted into the Direct Marketing Association’s Hall of Fame.

Despite numerous exposés over the years in publications spanning the political spectrum—including Harper’s, The Progressive, The Weekly Standard, Reason, the Baltimore Sun, and even the SPLC’s hometown newspaper, the Montgomery Advertiser—the liberal establishment continues to treat the group as credible, largely because its preoccupation with right-wing bigotry aligns with the stereotypical view of liberals who dominate newspapers like the Washington Post and New York Times. In our polarized culture, the epithet “hate group” is the ultimate slander of political opponents. The SPLC’s spurious imprimatur gives mere calumny gravitas, allowing liberal journalists to wield its highly charged judgments as a weapon, citing it as if it were a dispassionate authority. Many liberal (or merely lazy) journalists discredit conservative organizations by noting that they are “listed by the SPLC as a hate group,” treating its often dubious designations as gospel truth.

The accurate coverage and cataloging of hate groups does anger a lot of people for some reason. Both the hate groups in question, obviously, but also a strange orbit of less explicit right-wingers who seem annoyed by it for some reason.

[Ibrahim]

I live in the Pulse shooting area. The international news coverage was wildly incorrect. The patsy was Muslim, but not religious. He attempted to join ISIS by phone during the event. There were at least two other shooters and someone holding the door closed who were never identified but were reported by survivors on local news interviews.

This seems to be a pattern some the "lone wolf" or "self-radicalized" attacks. A mentally ill or just not-too-bright loser adopts a half-understood ideology first to try and ameliorate their aimlessness and isolation, and eventually to justify violence. If you're from a Muslim background it will probably be sympathy with ISIS or whoever the next group of Islamist maniacs turns out to be. If you're from a European background it will probably be online communities of misogynists or white supremacists.

That said, if we're tabulating these things the Pulse shooter should be filed under "Islamist" terror attacks. Self-identification counts, and both Islamist terrorism and neo-nazi or incel terrorism present a similar model of online radicalization that we should take steps to combat.

[Ibrahim]

Sounds great. Let's meet back here in 1000 years for the results.

I'm willing to do it next year. I'm willing to place bets on incel mass murders for the year 2019.

Have you gambled on mass murder in the past?

The SPLC is a fine organization. It makes sense that supporters of far-right politics don't like them though, and would support harassment lawsuits against them. Remember the alt-right/neo-nazi rule: free speech for us, censorship for everyone else.

The SPLC is a fine organization that had to pay millions to someone that they slandered.

They just drew a sympathetic judge. But of course you think that identifying racists is libelous, whereas being a racist is "free speech." This is common on the far-right.

I'll hand it to Nawaz, he got paid twice for the same grift.

What makes you think that?

I couldn't find any reference to it,

and their numbers didn't add up back of the envelope

I'm starting to see why you prefer youtube videos to written articles.

I don't take your word for it.

I don't believe you, you don't believe me. Everybody wins.

[Simple Minded]

Mention has been made of the SPLC's famous 'Hate Map', which pinpoints localities in the U.S. where organizations (almost all of them with only a very few, maybe no, members) which promote hate.

But to repeat what was said then, their map is really just a map of organizations or groups that the SPLC wants their supporters, affiliates, and other viewers, especially in the 'respectable' media (eg., BBC, CNN, NYT) want you to hate.



Here are some better 'hate maps':


https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/ ... m947_0.png

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pbox.php ... t=20170517

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ap.svg.png

https://imgoat.com/uploads/a38a4a9316/87130.jpeg

http://www.womanstats.org/substatics/20 ... 1-2012.png

fascinating stuff Apollonius. Thanks for posting.

Leads me to think:
1. Western Snowflakes have never experienced adversity or persecution.
2. SJW's and CJW's who focus their vitriol and efforts at fixing Westerners are avoiding real world problems. Purposefully or out of ignorance can probably only be determined on an individual basis.
3. Based on the last two maps, a lot of women's rights groups would probably be supportive of a wall between the US and Mexico.

also makes me feel better about not knowing the difference between a salad fork and a dinner fork.

[Mr. Perfect]

This seems to be a pattern some the "lone wolf" or "self-radicalized" attacks. A mentally ill or just not-too-bright loser adopts a half-understood ideology first to try and ameliorate their aimlessness and isolation, and eventually to justify violence. If you're from a Muslim background it will probably be sympathy with ISIS or whoever the next group of Islamist maniacs turns out to be. If you're from a European background it will probably be online communities of misogynists or white supremacists.

That said, if we're tabulating these things the Pulse shooter should be filed under "Islamist" terror attacks. Self-identification counts, and both Islamist terrorism and neo-nazi or incel terrorism present a similar model of online radicalization that we should take steps to combat.

Fascinating. Do these nuances apply also to right wing murderers you are afraid of or only "Islamists".

Are you under the opinion that misogyny is a uniquely European trait.