Ukraine

[Mr. Perfect]

Ve vill zanction the Ruska, in ze economic stylez, ezept for ze Ruska products zat vee need" -every Europa bureaucrat near a microphone.

[Mr. Perfect]

The UN failed. The NATO failed. The EU failed. The left failed.

Government failure. Where do we get our money back.

[Mr. Perfect]

A couple days into this and Democrats are pivoting to "Ukraine will be too expensive to occupy". Next step will be "we were always ok with Putin as peacekeeper of these independent regions".

What are the stages of grief again?

[Typhoon]

Reason | Stop Trying To Make Ukraine About Your Culture War

As the situation in Ukraine continues to worsen, many Americans can't stop trying to make this tragedy all about us. With the horrors of real war raging — buildings bombed, and 137 people killed so far, according to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — some U.S. pundits are pushing their culture war grievances into the Ukraine-Russia discourse.

Most U.S. pundits, and ultracrepidarian wannabe pundits, would have trouble locating Ukraine on a map and know less than zero about its and the regions history.

Anecdote.
Decades ago, while living in the US Midwest, I attended a lecture, ~ 1989, by some US pundit from Princeton, who was then held to be the US expert on the [former] Soviet Union, about the future of the SU. His main thesis was that thanks to Gorbachev's reforms, the SU would continue to exist as a confederation of happy nations under the wise guidance of Gorbachev. During the following question period, my expat Lithuanian friend and colleague stood up and suggested that both Gorbachev and the SU would be gone within a year. The pundit dismissed my friend's suggestion as being absurd. Given the immense popularity of Gorbachev among the US chattering classes at the time, the audience reaction his suggestion was, well, hostile to say the least.

I later came to understand that the pundit's career depended not on accurately predicting what might happen, but rather what the US State Dept and POTUS admin [Bush I, at that time] wanted to happen. After all, the US was one of the last nations to recognize the restitution of Baltic independence. Iceland being the first.

[Doc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJYtYssRCHc

xJYtYssRCHc

[Typhoon]

A bit of history . . .

Spectator | Why Ukrainians fear the Russians

The Ukrainian word 'Holodomor' meaning 'death by hunger' is not as well known in the West as the word 'Holocaust', but it should be. In 1933, a decade before the Nazis began to deliberately murder some six million European Jews, Stalin's Soviet regime starved to death – equally deliberately – some four million men, women and children in the Ukraine.

That this epic crime has largely disappeared from public memory, mostly forgotten except by historians and the Ukrainian diaspora, is partly down to the second catastrophe that overwhelmed Ukraine in 1941-45 with its invasion and conquest by Hitler's armies. This terrible episode was also successfully covered up and concealed from the world by both Stalin's regime and its western apologists*. The shining exceptions were two brave British journalists: Gareth Jones of the Times and Malcolm Muggeridge of the Manchester Guardian.

* Tablet Mag | How ‘The New York Times’ Helped Hide Stalin’s Mass Murders in Ukraine

The Spectator | L'affaire Kravcnenko

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

We all make our choices

'Nuke the fridge' message board poasting is quite a choice.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

how much does cutting off Russia from SWIFT trigger a new world order of Russian and China moving to their own banking and merchant systems.

maybe its not just Germany worried by the implications of that, maybe the USA isnt going to enjoy the flood-of-fiat that those guys can trigger now they no longer care about USD stability.

the USD only gets away with printing press because so much money is used for big foreign transactions

It seems like short term thinking.

Alternatively, in a world where China is on the verge of their own system, what better way to complicate that then causing chaos before the switch over?

Macron has been quite vocal about all this aswell.
It was foolish of the Anglosphere to alienate France, they actually recognised all of that and wanted to step up, and our durian politicians shut them out.

It was also foolish of Britain to hide back in its bunker and lose a voice in the meetings.

With France, Britain and Eastern Europe on board all of this would play out different and Germany could be ignored.

Au contraire, I cannot imagine a world where the British are ever helpful with Russia. British policy at all times has been to antagonize Russia by any means possible; and France can talk all she wants but standing against Germany is not going to happen.

[Mr. Perfect]

Reason | Stop Trying To Make Ukraine About Your Culture War

As the situation in Ukraine continues to worsen, many Americans can't stop trying to make this tragedy all about us. With the horrors of real war raging — buildings bombed, and 137 people killed so far, according to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — some U.S. pundits are pushing their culture war grievances into the Ukraine-Russia discourse.

I've noticed that Reason likes to lecture people.

[Mr. Perfect]

We all make our choices

'Nuke the fridge' message board poasting is quite a choice.

Whatever that means it sounds fascinating, I just marvel that there are 2 global entities whose sole purpose is to prevent what we are seeing, and not only did they have no idea it was happening, but had no plan on the books, and is completely directionless at this moment despite Putin telling anyone who would listen he was going to do it.

Makes one wonder why anyone would support such entities existence.

[Typhoon]

Reason | Stop Trying To Make Ukraine About Your Culture War

As the situation in Ukraine continues to worsen, many Americans can't stop trying to make this tragedy all about us. With the horrors of real war raging — buildings bombed, and 137 people killed so far, according to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — some U.S. pundits are pushing their culture war grievances into the Ukraine-Russia discourse.

I've noticed that Reason likes to lecture people.

A bit rich coming from you.

[Mr. Perfect]

It is what it is.

[noddy]

Au contraire, I cannot imagine a world where the British are ever helpful with Russia. British policy at all times has been to antagonize Russia by any means possible; and France can talk all she wants but standing against Germany is not going to happen.

Germany has almost rendered itself irrelevant.

possibly a Britain that was still in the EU and an increasing hawkish Macron with their support would have been able to draw the MAD line *before* Ukraine and not *after* it.

Im not convinced Putin is playing 3d chess right now - the only thing that would make that true is the formation of a new global market with China and this being the last hurrah of Russia and the West.

without that, all he has done is made Sweden and Finland join NATO, justify Macrons wishes to replace the USA with a bigger EU based army and justify an increase in millitary spending for every single one of his competitors.

Russia does not come out of this better - it smells more and more like North Korea every day.

[noddy]

We all make our choices

'Nuke the fridge' message board poasting is quite a choice.

Whatever that means it sounds fascinating, I just marvel that there are 2 global entities whose sole purpose is to prevent what we are seeing, and not only did they have no idea it was happening, but had no plan on the books, and is completely directionless at this moment despite Putin telling anyone who would listen he was going to do it.

Makes one wonder why anyone would support such entities existence.

Trump was the one that cancelled their millitary funding, your memories seem a bit blurry.

[noddy]

NATO has deployed 5000 special forces types on the border, the first time they have all been activated in Europe.

[Typhoon]

Mod note.

This is the Ukraine thread. It is not the US parochial politics thread.

Posts irrelevant to the Ukraine will be summarily deleted.

[Mr. Perfect]

Trump was the one that cancelled their millitary funding, your memories seem a bit blurry.

Nah we covered that just a few posts up. Trump was justifiably angry that German et al were increasing their imports from Russia while doing nothing to bolster their own defenses, and asking us to protect them at the same time. NATO has been fundamentally defunct long before Trump.

[noddy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85

this guy appears to be archiving the more relevant information

also

https://mobile.twitter.com/KofmanMichael

[Typhoon]

Zelenskiy's reply to the US offer of safe passage out of Ukraine,

"I need ammunition, not a ride."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxNGBRgMWs

8RxNGBRgMWs

[Typhoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L17Bi7zBJHI

L17Bi7zBJHI

[Typhoon]

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Russia does not come out of this better - it smells more and more like North Korea every day.

So your suggesting that the Chinese control Russians like they do the North Koreans?

[Doc]

Zelenskiy's reply to the US offer of safe passage out of Ukraine,

"I need ammunition, not a ride."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxNGBRgMWs

8RxNGBRgMWs

The human race is a joke and a comedian shall lead them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s1w07-9HQY

1s1w07-9HQY

IMHO WWII is now all but inevitable. There is no way out of it. The Valiant Resistance of the Ukrainian armed forces and people makes it so. One of the famous "Miscalculations" of nuclear brinkmanship. Putin won't back down at this point that would be his suicide There is some chance that the Russian people will remove him but the odds of that happening before it is too late are pretty much nil. Given the valiant defense of Ukraine the rest of the world cannot look away and so nothing. Doing so would require the removal of all the mirrors in the world lest someone look into their face in one. It may take months to unfold But as things stand today its coming.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

What valiant resistance?

Social media and traditional media is so flooded with propaganda right now, there is zero anyone without actual eyes on the ground can attest to.


============

I hate to be a wet blanket, and have no doubt having some knowledge of how human's act, that there is plenty of valiant resistance to an invading army.

But we are wholeheartedly being meme'd into WWIII.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Germany has almost rendered itself irrelevant.

Being almost irrelevant is like being almost pregnant.

possibly a Britain that was still in the EU and an increasing hawkish Macron with their support would have been able to draw the MAD line *before* Ukraine and not *after* it.

This is assuming the British would wish to avoid this fight.

Im not convinced Putin is playing 3d chess right now - the only thing that would make that true is the formation of a new global market with China and this being the last hurrah of Russia and the West.

without that, all he has done is made Sweden and Finland join NATO, justify Macrons wishes to replace the USA with a bigger EU based army and justify an increase in millitary spending for every single one of his competitors.

Russia does not come out of this better - it smells more and more like North Korea every day.

No, I don't think he's playing 3d chess either. I think he's fallen for the bait.

According to the New York Times, the Americans have been seeding the Chinese with information they knew they'd share with Russia about an imminent invasion. They did it to a point that the Chinese allegedly told the Russians they thought the Americans were sowing discord and that they (the Chinese) would not interfere with Russia's plans.

At the same time, according to Reuters, according to the Ukrainians, President Biden assured Zelenskiy of NATO membership.