Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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crashtech66 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:15 am Let's be fair, energy density is only critical in mobile applications which must carry their own fuel.
I don't agree.

Back of the envelope.

1. Topaz Solar Farm. CA, USA.

Annual net output: 1,282 GWh. Area*: 19 km^2. Capacity factor: 26.6%

Energy density = 67 GWh / km^2

*Area from plant specs.

2. Bruce Nuclear. Ontario, Canada. As I mentioned the CANDU design previously.

Annual net output. 48,169 GWh. Area*: ~ 0.5 km^2. Capacity factor: 87.4%

Energy density = 96,000 GWh/ km^2

So a solar power plant requires about 1000 times the area to produce the same energy over a year.

*Area estimated from Google Maps: includes the 8 reactor buildings, turbines, and transformers connections to the power grid.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Colonel Sun wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:41 am
crashtech66 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:15 am Let's be fair, energy density is only critical in mobile applications which must carry their own fuel.
I don't agree.

Back of the envelope.

1. Topaz Solar Farm. CA, USA.

Annual net output: 1,282 GWh. Area*: 19 km^2. Capacity factor: 26.6%

Energy density = 67 GWh / km^2

*Area from plant specs.

2. Bruce Nuclear. Ontario, Canada. As I mentioned the CANDU design previously.

Annual net output. 48,169 GWh. Area*: ~ 0.5 km^2. Capacity factor: 87.4%

Energy density = 96,000 GWh/ km^2

So a solar power plant requires about 1000 times the area to produce the same energy over a year.

*Area estimated from Google Maps: includes the 8 reactor buildings, turbines, and transformers connections to the power grid.
Especially relevant to the rich white types who subscribe to the NIMBY philosophy of generating electricity! Gore, Kerry, Obama. Kennedy's, Bush's, etc.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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In my own defense, I did say "is only critical in mobile applications," not "only matters in in mobile applications." Point taken, though.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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crashtech66 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 am In my own defense, I did say "is only critical in mobile applications," not "only matters in in mobile applications." Point taken, though.
Added that to my English language education. Thanks.

Back of the envelope, but now for wind power.


1. Alta Wind Energy Center. CA, USA.

Annual net output: 3,189 GWh. Area*: 13 km^2. Capacity factor: 23.5%%

*Area from plant specs.

Energy density = 245 GWh / km^2


2. Bruce Nuclear. Ontario, Canada.

Annual net output. 48,169 GWh. Area*: ~ 0.5 km^2. Capacity factor: 87.4%

*Area estimated from Google Maps: includes the 8 reactor buildings, turbines, and transformers connections to the power grid.

Energy density = 96,000 GWh/ km^2


So a wind power plant requires about 400 times the area to produce the same energy over a year as a nuclear power plant.
Roughly twice the energy density of a solar power plant, but still abysmal.


It would probably be more cost effective to simply print US dollars and burn them instead of coal for power.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Space isn't really at a premium in many of the places solar is well-suited for. The power guys I have talked to appreciate solar more than wind because, while it's still intermittent, it it more predictably intermittent than wind. Wind is capricious, which it bad for power grids, which rely on steady, smooth, on-demand delivery.

It would be great if there was a technology available that could store the vast amounts of energy that a fully renewable system would require. I actually like the concept of clean energy very much. But it's not just a matter of technology needing to mature. We need some kind of breakthrough that hasn't materialized yet. For now, if people want 100% renewable bad enough, they will have to put up with the power not always being on, or invest in household energy storage, something that will only be feasible for a select number.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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crashtech66 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:51 pm Space isn't really at a premium in many of the places solar is well-suited for. The power guys I have talked to appreciate solar more than wind because, while it's still intermittent, it it more predictably intermittent than wind. Wind is capricious, which it bad for power grids, which rely on steady, smooth, on-demand delivery.

It would be great if there was a technology available that could store the vast amounts of energy that a fully renewable system would require. I actually like the concept of clean energy very much. But it's not just a matter of technology needing to mature. We need some kind of breakthrough that hasn't materialized yet. For now, if people want 100% renewable bad enough, they will have to put up with the power not always being on, or invest in household energy storage, something that will only be feasible for a select number.
You can increase the potential energy storage capacity of any battery by placing the battery at a higher elevation. Downside is that it takes more energy to charge the battery because you are effectively "pushing the electrons up a hill." But this energy is regained when the battery is drained of electrons.

Basic physics 101!
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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crashtech66 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:51 pm Space isn't really at a premium in many of the places solar is well-suited for. The power guys I have talked to appreciate solar more than wind because, while it's still intermittent, it it more predictably intermittent than wind. Wind is capricious, which it bad for power grids, which rely on steady, smooth, on-demand delivery.
Makes sense re solar vs wind.

Still, in my view, both are a massive inefficient use of resources compared to the alternatives of nuclear, hydro, and possibly geothermal.

I also am in favour of alternatives to burning fossil fuels. Not for any concern re CO2 emission, rather for the reason is that fossil fuels are too precious a resource to burn as a primary fuel source.
crashtech66 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:51 pm It would be great if there was a technology available that could store the vast amounts of energy that a fully renewable system would require. I actually like the concept of clean energy very much. But it's not just a matter of technology needing to mature. We need some kind of breakthrough that hasn't materialized yet.
Indeed. For example, room temperature or at least solid CO2 [dry ice] temperature superconductivity, making superconducting magnetic energy storage viable.

crashtech66 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:51 pm For now, if people want 100% renewable bad enough, they will have to put up with the power not always being on, or invest in household energy storage, something that will only be feasible for a select number.
For real, dude. Like California, man.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Colonel Sun wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:42 am For real, dude. Like California, man.
Haha, nice affectation! What most Californians don't realize is that they are essentially being lied to by people they should be able to trust. I wonder how bad things will get before the real truth gets realized? Someday they won't be able to buy enough out of state fossil power to make their dream appear real anymore.

This brings Intermountain Power Plant to mind. LADWP doesn't own it, but operates it, and the vast majority of the power goes to Southern California. Leaders can claim, via this little game of having someone else own the plant, that Cali isn't actually burning any coal to meet their needs. Import water and export pollution. Seems fair. Maybe they can just do more of this to trick their people into the future.

The higher energy costs that come from this kind of subterfuge are actually a high and regressive tax. Everyone needs electricity. The rich only notice their higher electric bills as a nuisance, or maybe just as the cost of being responsible. I doubt the poor are so equanimous.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Zack Morris wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:19 am
The basic problem for the global nuclear industry is the US promoted pressurized light water nuclear reactor [PWR], due to its political and economic influence back in the day. Well suited for powering nuclear submarines, but poorly suited to civilian power production. All due to historical parochial infighting among US bureaucracies - the US Navy [Rickover] vs Oak Ridge. Loss of moderator [water] in a PWR leads to a critical chain reaction.

A far safer and more reliable alternative has been in operation for decades, developed by your unassuming northern neighbour - CANDU - a heavy water [deuterium oxide] moderated reactor. Does not require expensive and resource intensive uranium fuel enrichment, loss of moderator leads to shutdown, not a critical chain reaction [re Fukushima Daiichi], and the reactor does not need to be shutdown for refuelling. And yes, it can also run on a thorium fuel mixture. A search informs that 60% of electrical power in the province of Ontario, Canada is generated by CANDU nuclear.

If you're going to invoke terms such as "tail risk", it's better if you actually have some understanding of them.
If it's such a fantastic design, I'm sure we'll see it popping up in more places than Canada and China.
If only physics and engineering were the sole determining factors.

Speaking of your northern neighbour:

WSJ | Canada Embraces Nuclear Energy Expansion to Lower Carbon Emissions [paywalled]

Government is encouraging the deployment of small modular reactors, making the country an exception in the developed world
Updated March 3, 2021 6:12 am ET

OTTAWA—In most developed nations, enthusiasm for expanding nuclear power is limited or nonexistent. One exception: Canada.

It is counting on nuclear power to be part of its clean-energy mix, which will play a prominent role in sharply reducing carbon emissions. On a per-capita basis, Canada’s carbon emissions are in line with the U.S. and greater than in Russia, China and India.

“We don’t see a path where we reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 without nuclear,” said Seamus O’Regan, Canada’s natural-resources minister. “It is proven, it is tested and it is safe. We are good at it.”

Canada ranks sixth among countries in terms of nuclear-power generation, according to the Washington, D.C.-based Nuclear Energy Institute. Electricity produced from 19 nuclear reactors accounts for 15% of the country’s energy supply. In Ontario, an economic engine that is bigger in area than the state of Texas, nuclear power is the top source of electricity, at 60%.

Late last year Canada’s federal government set out a policy road map to encourage the deployment of what are known as small modular reactors, or SMRs. They are a new class of reactors that are built in factories and come in a range of sizes. They can produce enough energy for a town as small as 5,000 in population or a city as big as 300,000.
‘We don’t see a path where we reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 without nuclear,’ says Seamus O’Regan, Canada’s natural-resources minister.

Unlike legacy reactors, which are built on site and big enough to power a city of a million or more, these smaller versions can be transported and dropped into locales where they are either hooked up to the electricity grid to serve a large region, or meet the needs of industrial areas or small towns. Proponents add that SMRs are more efficient in producing electricity compared with legacy reactors, and that their costs make them competitive with fossil fuels such as natural gas and coal.

Canadian officials regard small modular reactors as a way to provide electricity to remote, northern indigenous communities, some of which are fueled by diesel. Two western oil-rich provinces, Alberta and Saskatchewan, count on fossil fuels to generate the bulk of their electricity, and neither has nuclear reactors. Both provinces, though, have signaled to the Canadian government their interest in deploying small modular reactors as part of an economic strategy and an effort to shift to cleaner forms of power.

Terrestrial Energy Inc., a company based near Toronto, is developing a 300-megawatt reactor that uses molten salt as a coolant and fuel. The Canadian government awarded the company 20 million Canadian dollars, equivalent to about $16 million, in financing to help spur further research. Terrestrial is hoping to have its first small reactors ready for deployment by the end of this decade, assuming that regulatory hurdles are cleared.

The outlook in Canada for small modular reactors has political support, with the federal government and four of the 10 provinces on board with deploying the technology. “They believe these technologies are important to them, for their economy and environmental ambitions,” said Simon Irish, chief executive of Terrestrial Energy.

Some say that small modular reactors and other new designs look good on paper but haven’t met real-world tests yet. “These are PowerPoint reactors,” said Mycle Schneider, a Paris-based nuclear-energy consultant who is often critical of the industry. “These are not existing full-scale designs. It’s very far from being detailed engineering.”

Even some supporters of nuclear power say small reactors using new designs are likely to cost more per megawatt than established designs that pack large capacity into a single plant.

“It’s a shame in my view because you’ve spent all this time, all these years” developing and testing the latest generation of big reactors, said George Borovas, head of the nuclear practice at the law firm Hunton Andrews Kurth. First-of-a-kind reactors typically suffer delays, and “it’s more expensive than you would think,” he said.

Terrestrial Energy is one of the three companies that Ontario Power Generation is working with in anticipation of adding small modular reactors at the Darlington Nuclear Generating Station, located 45 miles east of Toronto and currently capable of generating 3,500 megawatts, or enough to power two million homes. Ontario Power Generation, a utility owned by the provincial government, is in a separate joint venture with Seattle-based Ultra Safe Nuclear Corp., which is seeking a license to build and operate a 15-megawatt modular reactor in a town about 125 miles northwest of the capital, Ottawa.

Mr. Irish said the next step for Canada is for governments to make available more financing to help upstart companies in the small-reactor field. “This is important industrial technology for Canada, from a climate-change, jobs and economic perspective,” he said.

Canada’s natural-resources ministry acknowledged its financial role in documents making the case for nuclear power, especially next-generation, small reactors.

Governments at the national and regional level “have a role to play in sharing the risk and reducing the cost of capital,” the ministry said. “Without government support, the private sector may not make the necessary investments to set the stage for an SMR industry in Canada.”

Mr. O’Regan, the natural-resources minister, told reporters in December that additional money could be made available in the annual budget plan for 2021. “We cannot afford to take anything off the table,” he said. “I see the world in a very pragmatic way.”

Copyright ©2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8

Appeared in the March 4, 2021, print edition as 'Canada Embraces Reactors, in Contrast to Its Western Counterparts.'

Write to Paul Vieira at paul.vieira@wsj.com and Peter Landers at peter.landers@wsj.com
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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More order of magnitude data.

163343234_2959752054310728_8858483312787219423_o.jpg
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If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it. When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind.

~ Lord Kelvin
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Telegraph | Anti-U.S. energy movement deserves more scrutiny
Though its is obvious traditional energy sources such as oil, natural gas and coal come from the ground, it is often overlooked that wind, solar and battery technologies would not be possible without massive mining projects.

So it is ironic that the same KIITG groups that are pushing government leaders to “transition” to 100 percent wind and solar vehemently oppose the domestic copper, cobalt, lithium and rare earth mineral mining needed for renewable energy infrastructure. It is because of well-funded campaigns by groups such as the Sierra Club and Earthworks that United States mineral mining is currently being “kept to a minimum,” to use the Sierra Club’s verbiage, and far below the levels needed to domestically source the type of “green” energy revolution these activists insist is needed.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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AIER | Inside the Church of Climate
Today’s Church of Climate holds three resolute beliefs:

1. The human influence on climate is pronounced and controlling

2. That influence cannot be positive or benign, only catastrophic

3. Global governance can and must solve this problem
Rather
Nature doesn’t give us a stable, safe climate that we make dangerous. It gives us an ever-changing, dangerous climate that we need to make safe. And the driver behind sturdy buildings, affordable heating and air-conditioning, drought relief, and everything else that keeps us safe from climate is cheap, plentiful, reliable energy, overwhelmingly from fossil fuels.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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169036195_304289724389371_2205540828572113947_n.jpg
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Bjorn Lomberg:

Bloomberg and many news media sources confidently claim that hurricanes are being exacerbated by global warming, it would be more helpful to look at the bull's-eye, which is definitely expanding.

As Fig. 15 shows, the US population since 1900 has more than quadrupled. But moving to the coastline has clearly been much more alluring. The population of all the coastal counties from Texas to Virginia on the Gulf and Atlantic coast has seen population increase from less than 2 million to more than 31 million in 2020, 1,640% of the 1900 population.

There are now many more people living in Dade and Broward counties in South Florida than the entire coastal populations from Texas to Virginia in 1940. Incredibly, Florida's 35 coastal counties have increased a phenomenal 67.7 times, from less than a quarter-million to over 16 million in 2020.
Clearly, when a hurricane hit in the past, it would only affect a much smaller number of people––if a hurricane ripped through Dade and Broward today, it would in some way be the equivalent to a hurricane ripping through the entire Gulf and Atlantic coast in 1940.

Peer-reviewed article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/.../pii/S0040162520304157
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Richard Lindzen* | The Imaginary Climate Crisis: How can we Change the Message?
*Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, MIT

For about 33 years, many of us have been battling against climate hysteria. We have correctly noted

The exaggerated sensitivity,
The role of other processes and natural internal variability,
The inconsistency with the paleoclimate record,
The absence of evidence for increased extremes, hurricanes, etc. and so on.

We have also pointed out the very real benefits of CO2 and even of modest warming. And, as concerns government policies, we have been pretty ineffective. Indeed our efforts have done little other than to show (incorrectly) that we take the threat scenario seriously. In this talk, I want to make a tentative analysis of our failure.

In punching away at the clear shortcomings of the narrative of climate alarm, we have, perhaps, missed the most serious shortcoming: namely, that the whole narrative is pretty absurd. Of course, many people (though by no means all) have great difficulty entertaining this possibility. They can’t believe that something so absurd could gain such universal acceptance. Consider the following situation. Your physician declares that your complete physical will consist in simply taking your temperature. This would immediately suggest something wrong with your physician. He further claims that if your temperature is 37.3C rather than between 36.1C and 37.2C you must be put on life support. Now you know he is certifiably insane. The same situation for climate (a comparably complex system with a much more poorly defined index, globally averaged temperature anomaly) is considered ‘settled science.’

. . .
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Colonel Sun wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:20 am Richard Lindzen* | The Imaginary Climate Crisis: How can we Change the Message?
*Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, MIT

For about 33 years, many of us have been battling against climate hysteria. We have correctly noted

The exaggerated sensitivity,
The role of other processes and natural internal variability,
The inconsistency with the paleoclimate record,
The absence of evidence for increased extremes, hurricanes, etc. and so on.

We have also pointed out the very real benefits of CO2 and even of modest warming. And, as concerns government policies, we have been pretty ineffective. Indeed our efforts have done little other than to show (incorrectly) that we take the threat scenario seriously. In this talk, I want to make a tentative analysis of our failure.

In punching away at the clear shortcomings of the narrative of climate alarm, we have, perhaps, missed the most serious shortcoming: namely, that the whole narrative is pretty absurd. Of course, many people (though by no means all) have great difficulty entertaining this possibility. They can’t believe that something so absurd could gain such universal acceptance. Consider the following situation. Your physician declares that your complete physical will consist in simply taking your temperature. This would immediately suggest something wrong with your physician. He further claims that if your temperature is 37.3C rather than between 36.1C and 37.2C you must be put on life support. Now you know he is certifiably insane. The same situation for climate (a comparably complex system with a much more poorly defined index, globally averaged temperature anomaly) is considered ‘settled science.’

. . .
Good timing

https://www.yahoo.com/news/citing-grave ... 29578.html

Citing grave threat, Scientific American replaces 'climate change' with 'climate emergency'
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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crashtech66 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:20 am
Zack Morris wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:00 am
crashtech66 wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:24 am How about you tell us all about our newfangled way of storing all the gigawatt hours required to make the renewable dream come to fruition, without the crutch of fossil fuel or nuclear base load generation. Gonna tell us about massive banks of magical batteries? What will it be? Pull that magic out of the hat, or shut the hell up.
The renewable energy dream has been blossoming right under your nose (if only you'd only care to look past the tip of it).

You're making a strawman argument. Nobody argues that fossil fuel generation is going to be replaced completely any time soon. That doesn't make renewables and fossil fuel-free energy production a fruitless boondoggle, certainly not when the United States' most populous state now derives 2/3rds of its energy from clean sources. Solar and wind alone account for 30% of California's generation -- that's a massive win for the state and for the climate. And yes, battery banks are a fast-growing part of that equation, especially as lithium ion battery prices continue to drop (the inevitable transition to electric cars will only accelerate that). Expect several gigawatt-hours of capacity within the decade to come online in California alone.

No magic required. Just inevitable progress driven by demand for carbon-free electricity. Imagine if we had listened to the cynics, the curmudgeons, and the National Review crowd.
Content-free stats, that's all you got? Either you feel the need to parrot an ideological line, or you have no clue, just like the majority of low-information California voters. Thank goodness I got out of there before the insanity went exponential. How about searching for some real stats on grid connected batteries? I won't even insist on their manufacturing carbon footprint, because although it is significant, enough batteries can never be built to service the intermittent nature of renewables anyway. I implore you to research the real numbers. Batteries can't do the job! Cali is dooming itself to the expensive import of electricity, especially with its insane war against natural gas, the cleanest, most benign form of fossil energy there is, and incidentally the only bridge we have, save nuclear, to the holy grail of fusion energy.
You keep making this straw man argument about batteries. California already derives the lion’s share of its electricity from clean sources without need for batteries. Your argument seems to be that clean energy is a waste of time if it isn’t accounting for 100% of generation, which is nonsensical.

Peak demand occurs during daylight hours and solar can supply a large portion of that economically. Wind is also abundant and frequent enough to create a dent in fossil fuel use.

People on these forums have been making arguments about the futility of clean energy and labeling climate change a hoax for over a decade now. In that time, clean energy has made substantial inroads and the evidence for climate change has only grown stronger.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Zack Morris wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:43 pm
People on these forums have been making arguments about the futility of clean energy and labeling climate change a hoax for over a decade now. In that time, clean energy has made substantial inroads and the evidence for climate change has only grown stronger.
r-e-a-d-i-n-g c-o-m-p-r-e-s-s-i-o-n...... is important! ;)

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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Look out, fellas.
The Innumerate Kid just rode back into town and he's a lookin' to make some stroooooong unsupported assertions.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Colonel Sun wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:45 pm
Look out, fellas.
The Innumerate Kid just rode back into town and he's a lookin' to make some stroooooong unsupported assertions.
"Science" and "Maff" are just tools of white oppression! Any one who masters either gets kicked out of the elite woke tribe.

Zack has a much better chance of schupting Greta Thunberg than anyone else at OTNOT!
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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I have particularly enjoyed it moving from meaning "release of stored carbon" to "all carbon" - the former being a problem with focus, the latter being anything anytime anywhere for any reason.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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noddy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:29 am I have particularly enjoyed it moving from meaning "release of stored carbon" to "all carbon" - the former being a problem with focus, the latter being anything anytime anywhere for any reason.
For self-hating humans, there is only one Final Solution. Problem is no one wants to be a leader and go first!
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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Simple Minded wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:07 am
noddy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:29 am I have particularly enjoyed it moving from meaning "release of stored carbon" to "all carbon" - the former being a problem with focus, the latter being anything anytime anywhere for any reason.
For self-hating humans, there is only one Final Solution. Problem is no one wants to be a leader and go first!


all the industrialized world has reduced its breeding naturally, with zero compulsion from government - if their was a problem with overpopulation leading to decreased lifestyles, it was self correcting and had happened.

yet the same folks who argue their are too many humans, also argue we should have high immigration and import more humans to make up for the fact that we arent breeding enough.

its awfully confusing.
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Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

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noddy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:28 am
Simple Minded wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:07 am
noddy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:29 am I have particularly enjoyed it moving from meaning "release of stored carbon" to "all carbon" - the former being a problem with focus, the latter being anything anytime anywhere for any reason.
For self-hating humans, there is only one Final Solution. Problem is no one wants to be a leader and go first!


all the industrialized world has reduced its breeding naturally, with zero compulsion from government - if their was a problem with overpopulation leading to decreased lifestyles, it was self correcting and had happened.

yet the same folks who argue their are too many humans, also argue we should have high immigration and import more humans to make up for the fact that we arent breeding enough.

its awfully confusing.
Yeah, the "people bad" tribe doesn't really think that, or they would virtue signal by voluntarily committing ritual seppuku.
They really means "us good, others bad."

One gets a good insight into the "green mind" via the call for green energy (wind and solar). Only the spoiled rich are willing to spend money on energy sources that may or may not be available when needed.

Wind and solar are always "non-intermittant" only for virtue signaling, but keeping your Haagen-Dazs from melting, not so much.
noddy
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

Post by noddy »

we have batteries so that argument is less convincing..

solar is great for middle class people over here - they can abandon the socialist grid that subsidizes the poor and industry and just do their own private infrastructure that pays itself off in 5-10 years , provided you can pay cash up front to install it all.

all the battery and solar panel production is industry intensive so its doubtful how green it really is.
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: Climate change and other predictions of Imminent Doom

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:42 pm we have batteries so that argument is less convincing..

solar is great for middle class people over here - they can abandon the socialist grid that subsidizes the poor and industry and just do their own private infrastructure that pays itself off in 5-10 years , provided you can pay cash up front to install it all.

all the battery and solar panel production is industry intensive so its doubtful how green it really is.
yep. I got the joke. Your last sentence nails it, while simultaneously repudiating your first sentence. It does feel good though.

Does your gubmint have to subsidize solar over there in order to make it marketable?

But if my Haagen-Dazs is melting, and my neighbor has a charged battery, and I have a set of jumper cables....... could be a new era in rebuilding neighborhood communities.....

"Hi neighbor! Are your batteries charged? Can I borrow 4.7 Kw for a couple hours until the wind comes up or the sun comes out? You're out too? No problem, I'll just fire up my diesel generator and charge my battiest!"

The fun part will be a couple years down the road when the new generation of greenies turn against the older greenies cause the windmills are disrupting weather patterns and the solar collectors are reducing the recharging of the Earth's thermal mass. All good religions have no endpoint.
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