On the Nature of Things | Forum

Nonc Hilaire wrote:And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Exodus 33:23; KJV

I would have just said, "My way or the highway!" or "If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass." Probably just another reason why he's god and I'm not.

Simple Minded wrote:Personally, I find the term "black hole" to be both offensive and racist. I prefer the terms "hole of non-color," or "hole noir."

or perhaps a "hole with no light privilege."

Like a star wearing "Black Face"

I think it somewhat Ironic that the first black hole blue event horizon ever seen is actually orange and sort of looks like a "Q" Now try unseeing that.

Doc wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Personally, I find the term "black hole" to be both offensive and racist. I prefer the terms "hole of non-color," or "hole noir."

or perhaps a "hole with no light privilege."

Like a star wearing "Black Face"

I think it somewhat Ironic that the first black hole blue event horizon ever seen is actually orange and sort of looks like a "Q" Now try unseeing that.

It's a warm KrispyKreme. Also explains its' irresistable attraction.

Simple Minded wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Exodus 33:23; KJV

We're looking at God's anus?

The competition for the funding of a colonoscopy should be yuge. Are the grant application forms online yet?

Biblical prophesy of a sign of the End Times?

with a possibly infinite amount of galaxies, each with a black hole at the centre, that means gods omni-properities extend beyond omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent
all the way to omomnisphincterant.

noddy wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Exodus 33:23; KJV

We're looking at God's anus?

The competition for the funding of a colonoscopy should be yuge. Are the grant application forms online yet?

Biblical prophesy of a sign of the End Times?

with a possibly infinite amount of galaxies, each with a black hole at the centre, that means gods omni-properities extend beyond omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent
all the way to omomnisphincterant.

sounds like latin for "yer a giant a-hole!"

and beyond omni-imagination....... So, would the plural of anus be anai?

IMSMO, the exodus prophesy is the ultimate reframe of the chicken or the egg paradox. Which came first, did god turn away from man, or did man turn away from god?

or... simply...... the cosmic origin of the age old expression ".... and all y'all can kiss my ass!" or "Y'all can go to Hell, I'm going to Texas!"

What to call the black hole probe mission? Cosmic Colonoscope 1? Lost in Space? Journey to the Center of ? To boldly go where no man wants to go? Deep Space X? If the probe is not manned by gay Christians, with the crew be accused of cultural appropriation? one small step for man, one giant leap for gaymankind?

Why can't we say it might not be a black hole?

Mr. Perfect wrote:Why can't we say it might not be a black hole?

1. Evidence.

2. An informed and coherent argument based on physics and engineering.

You are free to say what you want, for example "the earth is flat", but the mod is free to move your post to the appropriate thread.

Doc wrote:Replay of the European press conference. Another first - at times the some of the scientists are fighting back tears.

Dr20f19czeE

For example, at 13:00 or so the guy answers/doesn't answer my question. In his own words he says it's black hole because theory matches their observation. This is a affirming the consequent fallacy, all things must be determined independently and rule out any other explanation.

This is not science, but wishful thinking.

Some of the greatest minds on the internet have speculated it could be a picture of god's anus.

Science, wishful thinking, or desire for religious confirmation bias?

Mr. Perfect wrote:

Doc wrote:Replay of the European press conference. Another first - at times the some of the scientists are fighting back tears.

Dr20f19czeE

For example, at 13:00 or so the guy answers/doesn't answer my question. In his own words he says it's black hole because theory matches their observation. This is a affirming the consequent fallacy, all things must be determined independently and rule out any other explanation.

This is not science, but wishful thinking.

A prediction was made and the observation fits the prediction within a few percentage points. Four groups independently took the data and turned it into this picture. That is probably the weak point of the picture. IE looking for confirmation of the prediction. But given that four different groups worked on this by independent methods -- not likely.

Doc wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:

Doc wrote:Replay of the European press conference. Another first - at times the some of the scientists are fighting back tears.

Dr20f19czeE

For example, at 13:00 or so the guy answers/doesn't answer my question. In his own words he says it's black hole because theory matches their observation. This is a affirming the consequent fallacy, all things must be determined independently and rule out any other explanation.

This is not science, but wishful thinking.

Indeed. Yours.

Doc wrote: A prediction was made and the observation fits the prediction within a few percentage points. Four groups independently took the data and turned it into this picture. That is probably the weak point of the picture. IE looking for confirmation of the prediction. But given that four different groups worked on this by independent methods -- not likely.

Quite.

Lol. My brother correctly predicted the Superbowl last year, if that means anything.

Science requires repeated results that rule out any other explanation. This has not yet begun to meet this basic threshold.

Mr. Perfect wrote:Lol. My brother correctly predicted the Superbowl last year, if that means anything.

Science requires repeated results that rule out any other explanation. This has not yet begun to meet this basic threshold.

Four groups worked independently on the data using different methods. How is that not a repetition of the result?

Mr. Perfect wrote:Lol. My brother correctly predicted the Superbowl last year, if that means anything.

It may mean something to your brother, if he had money riding on it.
Wholly irrelevant to the issue under discussion.

Mr. Perfect wrote:Science requires repeated results that rule out any other explanation. This has not yet begun to meet this basic threshold.

An objection based on being uniformed has no merit.

There is a long list of experiments providing evidence for black holes that predate this direct observation.
This list can now between updated with the observations of gravitational waves generated by binary black hole mergers from the LIGO experiment.

A analogy is the atomic theory of matter.
At the beginning of the 20th century there was a vigorous debate between the matter is a continuum and the matter consists of atoms camps.
It was understood that matter is composed of atoms after Einstein explained Perrin's Brownian motion experiment in 1908. A century later, the evidence is overwhelming. The first images of individual atoms were generated in 1989. Recently a student captured an image of a single strontium atom in a ion trap. Great fun, however, these are not necessary evidence for the existence of atoms. The same with direct observation vs the existence of black holes.

Black hole image is mainly a triumph of engineering

Mr. Perfect wrote:Lol. Deleting comments won't hide the truth.

Im fairly sure everyone here is aware you think its all stupid and dont believe any of it. no need to worry.

noddy wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:Lol. Deleting comments won't hide the truth.

Im fairly sure everyone here is aware you think its all stupid and dont believe any of it. no need to worry.

Quite.
And belief is no substitute for having an actual understanding.,

Over the decades it has never ceased to amaze me how many crackpots the fields of physics and mathematics attract.

In mathematics, many crackpots seem to be attracted to the notoriously difficult field of number theory.
However, number theory is probably far removed from my field of work [never say never] except for odd encounters with the Riemann zeta function of Riemann hypothesis fame [or infamy, depending on how many decades one has spent trying to solve it], so I'll leave it at that.

In the case of physics, to the best of my knowledge, most crackpots are overwhelming attracted to gravitation theory and particle physics theory.
So much so that the mathematical physicist, Prof. John Baez, back in the day when he was working on quantum gravity, was driven to develop his now famous Crackpot Index.

The most common factor between these crackpots is that they have not done their homework; invested the time and effort to develop a proper knowledge and understanding of the experimental evidence and theoretical understanding that has been achieved to-date. Well, it is a formidable and difficult undertaking. If they spent as much time learning to stand on the shoulders of giants* as they engage in drama queen victim hood, some of them might actually learn enough to make a real contribution to the field, perhaps even a revolutionary one, who knows.

*"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

~ Isaac Newton, 1675
_____

Meanwhile simplistic assertions stating "it's all wrong", lacking any understanding, and lacking a testable prediction that could be preformed to differentiate between current theories and new alternatives hypothesis will be either committed to the looney bin thread or simply deleted, if in the informed opinion of the mod, they are not worth the bother and effort.

Mr. Perfect wrote:Why can't we say it might not be a black hole?

I did. I said it might be God's anus.

It might not be a black hole. It might be God's anus.

Happy now?

Why can't we say it might be God's anus? I can understand an atheist objecting to that speculation. but anyone else?

Hell, Nonc even provided supporting Biblical prophecy for my theory.

Colonel Sun wrote:
Quite.
And belief is no substitute for having an actual understanding.,

Over the decades it has never ceased to amaze me how many crackpots the fields of physics and mathematics attract......

So much so that the mathematical physicist, Prof. John Baez, back in the day when he was working on quantum gravity, was driven to develop his now famous Crackpot Index..

The most common factor between these crackpots is that they have not done their homework; invested the time and effort to develop a proper knowledge and understanding of the experimental evidence and theoretical understanding that has been achieved to-date. Well, it is a formidable and difficult undertaking. If they spent as much time learning to stand on the shoulders of giants as they engage in drama queen victim hood, some of them might actually learn enough to make a real contribution to the field, perhaps even a revolutionary one, who knows.....

Well said. That's why they call it faith.

As a wise friend used to say: "Half of being smart, is knowing what you're dumb at!"

Some people don't know what they are dumb at.

Per aspera ad astra.

Maybe I'm a bitter old nit, but the recent fascination with space exploration and the desire to see human footprints on the moon again is so that people can feel happy about something and that's so...... trivial. Which wouldn't be so much in itself, but it seems to be the sole metric in any public works endeavour now.........

The real reason we're not making much progress in space is because we're such feels balloons, which may be another way of saying we lack the will.....'>.......

Miss_Faucie_Fishtits wrote:Maybe I'm a bitter old nit, but the recent fascination with space exploration and the desire to see human footprints on the moon again is so that people can feel happy about something and that's so...... trivial. Which wouldn't be so much in itself, but it seems to be the sole metric in any public works endeavour now.........

The real reason we're not making much progress in space is because we're such feels balloons, which may be another way of saying we lack the will.....'>.......

Succinctly best explained by a dead white guy:

KNQRqJitqNI