Romney vs. Obama

[Mr. Perfect]

Yeah, huddling in caves in the mountains of the NWFP or the Yemen, waiting for the drones to get you while your buddies get turned to hamburger day by day, week by week, month by month.

Livin' large, yo...

Living Bin Laden style.

[anderson]

Yeah, huddling in caves in the mountains of the NWFP or the Yemen, waiting for the drones to get you while your buddies get turned to hamburger day by day, week by week, month by month.

Livin' large, yo...

Living Bin Laden style.

Living a bunker life, waiting for death, whether from violence or from disease?
Pretty much.

[Enki]

Yeah, huddling in caves in the mountains of the NWFP or the Yemen, waiting for the drones to get you while your buddies get turned to hamburger day by day, week by week, month by month.

Livin' large, yo...

Living Bin Laden style.

Living a bunker life, waiting for death, whether from violence or from disease?
Pretty much.

I doubt most of them have servants who bring them supplies like Bin Laden did.

Though the analytics they used to determine that the home had more people living there than came in and out were pretty fascinating.

[Mr. Perfect]

If Mitt Romney were doing the exact same things Obama is doing, Mr. Perfect would be lauding it as brilliant. Mr. Perfect isn't against Obama's policies, he's against Obama.

I'm against his policies and I'm against him, let's be fair.

Since so many of Obama's policies came from the right,

I know, we've never seen an era of more deregulation, capitalism, free enterprise, pro-american fp, privatization, property rights increases, and shirnkage of government. It's been a right wing bonanza.

I can only think that there is one reason and one reason alone for the visceral hatred of Obama. Sorry to say, but the right-wing hatred of Obama is pretty clear.

We agree on this point. Very similar to Clinton hatred.

Plenty of reasons for the left to hate him, primarily because he is governing from the right and then bragging about it in a debate.

And yet they don't.

Why is a man who follows George Bush loved by people who hate George Bush? I have some answers if you can't think of any.

[Mr. Perfect]

The claims of apocalypse now if Obama is re-elected versus a bright new shiny utopia if Romney is elected is are amusing
given that they have more in common than any differences.

It helps if you actually read what people are saying, I only give is a 50% chance of recovery if Romney wins vs. 0% under Obama.

[Mr. Perfect]

Again, that kind of thing could have been done years ago.

Well no, we have a long history of cities and states passing ban laws, they never did taxes because it never occurred to them. It occurs to them now.

It's just a trick that has never been tried. It won't wash in, say, Georgia.

Well sure, let's make a patchwork nation where fundamental god given rights are determined by where you live.

[Enki]

Again, that kind of thing could have been done years ago.

Well no, we have a long history of cities and states passing ban laws, they never did taxes because it never occurred to them. It'll occur to them now.

It's just a trick that has never been tried. It won't wash in, say, Georgia.

Well sure, let's make a patchwork nation where fundamental god given rights are determined by where you live.

I never figured you for a Federal Power guy. I always thought you were a Tenth Amendment guy. Welcome to the Big Government fold!

[Mr. Perfect]

Your claim was a "surge in terrorism". I don't think this qualifies.

Overrunning an embassy and murdering an ambassador? Yeah, it qualifies.

Perhaps. However, now you're speculating rather than providing actual evidence of a "surge in terrorism".

Terrorists have this odd behavior of not providing evidence of their attacks if they can help it. Bin Laden would have loved you pre 9-11.

Unnotable in that the actions of Oswald have nothing to do with terrorism.

An assassination is not terrorism?

I'm starting to think that you may be on someone's payroll.

as the US perceives it, originating from the ME. A non sequitur.

No, you brought up the topic. The murder of one man is a non-notable event, much like the low number of deaths via terrorists compared to lightning, yet some non-notable deaths tend to be viewed by human beings as notable.

[Mr. Perfect]

I never figured you for a Federal Power guy. I always thought you were a Tenth Amendment guy. Welcome to the Big Government fold!

I'm a constitution man, wherein the constitution exists to take power away from the government. If you want to call taking power away from the government big government we can do that I guess. Maybe we can fool some leftists to come over to my side.

[Enki]

I never figured you for a Federal Power guy. I always thought you were a Tenth Amendment guy. Welcome to the Big Government fold!

I'm a constitution man, wherein the constitution exists to take power away from the government. If you want to call taking power away from the government big government we can do that I guess. Maybe we can fool some leftists to come over to my side.

Any movement of rights from the states to the Federal Government is 'big government'.

[Mr. Perfect]

Hey, when you're right you're right, forbidding the government from doing things is actually making government more powerful and bigger. You're really on a roll here.

[monster_gardener]

If that's where we're headed we may as well embrace it. The Obama method has brought back terror levels beyond 9-10-01. If I'm a terrorist right now I'm thrilled with Obama policy. There is an unending well of terror backing exposed by the 9-11-12 activities. It's a good time to be a terrorist.

9-11-12 was a complete success.

Yeah, huddling in caves in the mountains of the NWFP or the Yemen, waiting for the drones to get you while your buddies get turned to hamburger day by day, week by week, month by month.

Livin' large, yo...

Thank you Very Much for your post, Anderson.

With all due respect, Mr. Perfect is referencing September 11, 2012 and that this is Al Queda or similar in Libya. Right now I imagine that the perps may be celebrating in some safe house who knows where.... Maybe in Mali....

IMVHO Terrorists or more properly Jihadi Warriors do live large in their own peculiar way........Power Rush on Steroids..... Things that normally are crimes, are holy acts for you for which you will be rewarded in the afterlife........ Remembering that Killer Klown Abu Musab al-Zarqawiin inIraq enjoying checking out an automatic weapon, cutting off Nick Berg's head and marrying an teenaged girl......Reminds me of the traditional Muslim/Arab Culture pleasures of "Eating Meat, Riding Meat & Putting Meat into Meat"........... Didn't last long but it was probably fun while it lasted.....


You may prove to be ultimately right given President Obama stated intention to get the perps for the Libyan consulate/embassy attack.
Obama would love to remove the onus of his Black Hawk Down Libya & Lying by bagging another or several terrorist trophy heads to go with Osama bin Ladin's.


AIUI Al Queda/the Taliban in Pakistan/NWFP despite the drones can cross borders with ease and shoot 14 year old school girls who want an education pretty much at will......

[Mr. Perfect]

We've had 4 years of Obama fp now, fp that he said would defuse terrorism just because of who he is and what we have is the US less popular under him than under Bush and a region bursting at the seems with hatred for us, followed by terrorist attacks completely unprepared for. This is a scenario similar to the late 90's, where AQ success prompted escalations. If I'm an anti-US terrorist in the ME my imagination is running wild right now.

[Enki]

We've had 4 years of Obama fp now, fp that he said would defuse terrorism just because of who he is and what we have is the US less popular under him than under Bush and a region bursting at the seems with hatred for us, followed by terrorist attacks completely unprepared for. This is a scenario similar to the late 90's, where AQ success prompted escalations. If I'm an anti-US terrorist in the ME my imagination is running wild right now.

Prove that the US is more unpopular under Obama than Bush. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Since you are advocating genocide and total war, I must say I prefer Obama FP to you and Mitt Romney.

[Sparky]

Yeah, huddling in caves in the mountains of the NWFP or the Yemen, waiting for the drones to get you while your buddies get turned to hamburger day by day, week by week, month by month.

Livin' large, yo...

Living Bin Laden style.

Upside, inside out he's livin la bid'ah loca...

[Mr. Perfect]

[
Prove that the US is more unpopular under Obama than Bush. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It's hardly extraordinary and is in fact common knowledge. One wonders why you don't possess this knowledge that is common.

http://diegetics.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1548

Since you are advocating genocide and total war, I must say I prefer Obama FP to you and Mitt Romney.

Total War leaves you with less dead. Nobody is advocating genocide, unless you consider the invasions of Japan and German genocides. Is that what you're saying?

[Enki]

[
Prove that the US is more unpopular under Obama than Bush. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It's hardly extraordinary and is in fact common knowledge. One wonders why you don't possess this knowledge that is common.

http://diegetics.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1548

Since you are advocating genocide and total war, I must say I prefer Obama FP to you and Mitt Romney.

Total War leaves you with less dead. Nobody is advocating genocide, unless you consider the invasions of Japan and German genocides. Is that what you're saying?

Total War does not leave you with less dead. Japan and Germany lost tens of millions of people.

Genocide is when you target a particular genetic group for killing. You are suggesting we target Arabs and send the B-52s over them. And for what? Because they might kill an ambassador or hijack a plane?

You are talking about napalming a house fly.

[Mr. Perfect]

Total War does not leave you with less dead. Japan and Germany lost tens of millions of people.

But not tens of millions of Americans.

Genocide is when you target a particular genetic group for killing. You are suggesting we target Arabs and send the B-52s over them.

I guess in the same way we targeted the genetically Japanese or Germans. If that kind of targeting is genocide then yes, that kind of genocide.

And for what? Because they might kill an ambassador or hijack a plane?

No, use of a nuclear device.

You are talking about napalming a house fly.

Well a mass murdering house fly, napalm may not be too bad.

And I guess you've capitulated on the popularity thing.

[Enki]

But not tens of millions of Americans.

It might, whereas not going Total War will mean no tens of millions of Americans. There is simply no threat to tens of millions of Americans, but opening up that can of worms could lead to a situation where the world decides that the United States of America must be destroyed.

I guess in the same way we targeted the genetically Japanese or Germans. If that kind of targeting is genocide then yes, that kind of genocide.

The Japanese and the Germans actually threatened us.

No, use of a nuclear device.

If we would stop bombing them we wouldn't have to worry about that.

Well a mass murdering house fly, napalm may not be too bad.

A terrorist that kills ten people is nothing compared to a war machine that kills millions. All lives are valuable, but you're talking about some pretty extreme risk, something that would bankrupt this nation and turn us all into mass murdering terrorists on a level that Osama bin Laden could not even fathom.

[Mr. Perfect]

It might, whereas not going Total War will mean no tens of millions of Americans. There is simply no threat to tens of millions of Americans, but opening up that can of worms could lead to a situation where the world decides that the United States of America must be destroyed.

AQ, ME terror, the stated goal is the destruction of America. AQ attacked us multiple times and planned 9-11 while Clinton was President, indicating that they wanted to keep doing it and do it more and more. So please, you and your Democrat party, go to the American people and tell them that unless there are tens of millions of deaths from AQ types then there is nothing to worry about.

Now, to me admittedly your ideas are rather noxious, to just deliver who knows how many people to the hands of murderers without any concern, but I am comforted that if indeed it does happen it will be far more likely to happen to you or people you care about than to me or people I care about.

The Japanese and the Germans actually threatened us.

AQ has killed more American civilians than Nazi Germany or Japan ever did. I would love for the Democrat platform to be that AQ is no threat to America.

If we would stop bombing them we wouldn't have to worry about that.

Under Obama that ship sailed big time, with your hand holding (10,000 ninjas), so we have to live in reality, live with the consequences of your actions, prepare for the next phase.

A terrorist that kills ten people is nothing compared to a war machine that kills millions. All lives are valuable, but you're talking about some pretty extreme risk, something that would bankrupt this nation and turn us all into mass murdering terrorists on a level that Osama bin Laden could not even fathom.

Since when did you concern yourself with bankruptcy? That already happened, done deal, with the election of Obama, and you midwifed the whole process. So let's try to get some kind of honesty out of you for once. And nuclear weapons don't cost much. Cost/benefit is pretty good.

I think our adversary has some weaknesses and I doubt that they would go past a million before giving up. But if they choose tens of millions, that's up to them.

[Ibrahim]

That was a throwaway comment. The legislative environment will absolutely not support any tightening of gun laws.

While Obama is definitely the guy lying on the " weakened Taliban " thing, anybody in the WH right now would be saying the same thing in order to get out. They have to. The current situation was set in stone in 2002, when the decision was made to try to do nation building in a place that hadn't been a nation in some time.

Doesn't Romney want to stay in Afghanistan? Stupid beyond belief.

Has he been saying that? He'll with draw on schedule if he actually wins. What's the benefit of staying? If he actually thinks there is now then his first briefing will remove that fiction from his mind.

US foreign policy is deeply flawed and destructive, but it is one of the few things that there is real bipartisan support over. Which is odd, because the most obvious and adamant lying by Republicans is based on defense and the idea that the Obama administration has been weak on defense or anti-military. One of the odd political myths in the US is that the Democrats are the "weak on defense" party and the Republicans are the "strong on defense" party, when both are identical. This myth forces both parties to uphold their end of that narrative, so both parties overspend and over-commit.

Now, while this is an interesting thing to chat about, it has no bearing on the election at all. Americans don't care about the embassy attack any more than they care about the thousands to broken-toy veterans who kill themselves, or the thousands of murdered civilians or anything else that actually results from US foreign policy. It's just another lever for political exploitation. One candidate scores his point in the debate, then everybody forgets about it again. The immorality and inefficacy of US defense policy is a non-issue for Americans.

[Skin Job]

Now, while this is an interesting thing to chat about, it has no bearing on the election at all. Americans don't care about the embassy attack any more than they care about the thousands to broken-toy veterans who kill themselves, or the thousands of murdered civilians or anything else that actually results from US foreign policy. It's just another lever for political exploitation. One candidate scores his point in the debate, then everybody forgets about it again. The immorality and inefficacy of US defense policy is a non-issue for Americans.

Sadly, I agree.

[Enki]

AQ, ME terror, the stated goal is the destruction of America. AQ attacked us multiple times and planned 9-11 while Clinton was President, indicating that they wanted to keep doing it and do it more and more. So please, you and your Democrat party, go to the American people and tell them that unless there are tens of millions of deaths from AQ types then there is nothing to worry about.

There is a difference between protecting oneself and killing millions of people.

Now, to me admittedly your ideas are rather noxious, to just deliver who knows how many people to the hands of murderers without any concern, but I am comforted that if indeed it does happen it will be far more likely to happen to you or people you care about than to me or people I care about.

You are the one that wants to turn ME into a murderer. If we stopped fighting them they would lose their power, they wouldn't come here to kill us. They want to destroy us because otherwise we will continue to rule their nations.

AQ has killed more American civilians than Nazi Germany or Japan ever did. I would love for the Democrat platform to be that AQ is no threat to America.

Right, because there is not actual rationale to your logic, it's pure emotion. "Me badass warrior, must prove penis is long by bashing as many skulls as possible."

Under Obama that ship sailed big time, with your hand holding (10,000 ninjas), so we have to live in reality, live with the consequences of your actions, prepare for the next phase.

Obama is not quite doing 10,000 Ninjas. 10,000 Ninjas goes hand in hand with the Milo Doctrine. It's about being able to insert forces Felix Baumgartner style anywhere in the world without a grand defense posture of thousands of bases and logistical supply lines.

Since when did you concern yourself with bankruptcy? That already happened, done deal, with the election of Obama, and you midwifed the whole process. So let's try to get some kind of honesty out of you for once. And nuclear weapons don't cost much. Cost/benefit is pretty good.

We are not yet bankrupt. And it is the wars that are bankrupting us. So I concerned myself with that since immediately after 9/11 when I talked about how all that war was going to bankrupt us. The midwife was Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. Obama simply did not stop the process, unfortunately.

I think our adversary has some weaknesses and I doubt that they would go past a million before giving up. But if they choose tens of millions, that's up to them.

I don't think the American people would make it past a million. We would no longer be able to consider ourselves the good guys, the illusion would be shattered completely.

You may wish for Caesar to dissolve the Republic in an eternal war posture, but not all of us do.

[Enki]

Now, while this is an interesting thing to chat about, it has no bearing on the election at all. Americans don't care about the embassy attack any more than they care about the thousands to broken-toy veterans who kill themselves, or the thousands of murdered civilians or anything else that actually results from US foreign policy. It's just another lever for political exploitation. One candidate scores his point in the debate, then everybody forgets about it again. The immorality and inefficacy of US defense policy is a non-issue for Americans.

Sadly, I agree.

Yup. I have told I am cynical for caring about such things.

[Mr. Perfect]

There is a difference between protecting oneself and killing millions of people.

I guess. What that has to do with this conversation is unclear. This conversation is how Obama breathed life back into terrorist movements, and how he's just going to keep doing it.

You are the one that wants to turn ME into a murderer.

By your own standards, the standards you put forth here, you're already a murderer.

If we stopped fighting them they would lose their power, they wouldn't come here to kill us. They want to destroy us because otherwise we will continue to rule their nations.

That is a purely academic conversation. Nobody is on tap to deliver that, you are living in a non-reality. Reality is which method of killing produces better results. The Obama method has led to a blossoming of AQ types. There are more safe havens now then when Obama was elected.

Right, because there is not actual rationale to your logic, it's pure emotion. "Me badass warrior, must prove penis is long by bashing as many skulls as possible."

I hope that is the message you take to the American people. Obama killing actually appears to be pointless killing, whereas total war has an actual goal (defeat of the enemy).

Obama is not quite doing 10,000 Ninjas. 10,000 Ninjas goes hand in hand with the Milo Doctrine. It's about being able to insert forces Felix Baumgartner style anywhere in the world without a grand defense posture of thousands of bases and logistical supply lines.

Drones are the same thing. They don't require thousands of bases. 10,000 ninjas is just murder by another name Tinker, we all know that. But this murder isn't working.

We are not yet bankrupt. And it is the wars that are bankrupting us.

Your financial and economic innumeracy never fails to astound. Iraq war spending under bush was around 1 trillion, which is what we've run as an annual deficit under Obama for years now. Keep 'em coming.

http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

So I concerned myself with that since immediately after 9/11 when I talked about how all that war was going to bankrupt us.

And it didn't bankrupt us. STPN on the other hand.

The midwife was Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. Obama simply did not stop the process, unfortunately.

He signed on as a midwife. He fully funded the Iraq War through his votes, continued it years after he said it should stop and accelerated in AFG. When you pay for something you own it. He paid for it.

I don't think the American people would make it past a million. We would no longer be able to consider ourselves the good guys, the illusion would be shattered completely.

I don't know, some said we killed nearly a million in Iraq, and that war wasn't protested too terribly hard. Even the people elected to stop it in 2006 didn't, neither did the guy elected again to stop it in 2008. I don't think anyone will care.

You may wish for Caesar to dissolve the Republic in an eternal war posture, but not all of us do.

Obama already did that with your midwifing. Done deal. Already on the books. You signed on right from the start.

You need to interface with reality before it really costs you.