Israel

[Hoosiernorm]

http://www.idf.il/1283-17615-en/Dover.aspx

IAF aborts airstrikes in an effort to protect civilians

[Ibrahim]

This is good Israeli PR for American rubes. Blow up some kids and they say "look, we still supply water to their huge jail we created."

Been working for years why quit now?

You mean the PR or killing Palestinian children?

I only see one of those things on my television

can you guess which one?

Oh, you mean FoxNews and the IDF blog/killcam library doesn't report on that? I guess you'd have to want to hear the other side of the story

[Ibrahim]

http://www.idf.il/1283-17615-en/Dover.aspx

IAF aborts airstrikes in an effort to protect civilians

"We don't target civilians. Just ask us! Please ignore the weeping Arab woman behind the curtain...."

[Hoosiernorm]

This is good Israeli PR for American rubes. Blow up some kids and they say "look, we still supply water to their huge jail we created."

Been working for years why quit now?

You mean the PR or killing Palestinian children?

I only see one of those things on my television

can you guess which one?

Oh, you mean FoxNews and the IDF blog/killcam library doesn't report on that? I guess you'd have to want to hear the other side of the story

https://twitter.com/louisfarrakhan

Not even Minister Farrakhan has said a word about it. Doesn't look like American Muslims give a lavender about it right now either.

[Ibrahim]

https://twitter.com/louisfarrakhan

Not even Minister Farrakhan has said a word about it. Doesn't look like American Muslims give a lavender about it right now either.

[Crocus sativus]

.

All this music to Iranian ear

No matter what, which side hits which side, good for Ahmadinejat

Hammas Wahhabi .. the other side Zionist

and

in the process

Barak Hussein must come out of closet

and

let's see whether Morsi or Erdogan have balls

well , folks .. ball in your corner

Ahmadinejat, lean back and relaaaax


.

[Sparky]

How dare they fight back against the people who starve and bomb them!

Random missile strikes on Israelis? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Pathans? Dastardly iniquity!

Israel has done a lot to Gaza (right down to actually supporting Hamas to destabilize Arafat in the 80's), where as the Pathans have done little or nothing to the US. Israel keeps Gazans in a concentration camp which they blockade and and bomb with impunity. Pathans aren't a danger to anybody except other Pathans. Oh, and the Taliban once hosted some AQ bases in their sprawling, decentralized country, all of which have since been destroyed.

But that answer might have been too detailed. Perhaps it would be easier to to say "Random missile strikes on Gaza? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Israel? Dastardly iniquity!"

You can't have it both ways, Ibrahim. Either it's wrong to bombard civvies or it's not.

Everybody else here is having it both ways. The counter-position is that IDF killing children in Gaza is a necessary defensive measure to prevent Hamas killing children in Tel Aviv.

Frankly the efforts to "catch" me on supporting one action and not another ever since the Libyan campaign have been desperate at best. Most of the right-wingers on this forum support the US killing Afghans and Iraqis, but hated overthrowing Gaddafi. They support anything Israel does, even if it mimics the most evil regimes in modern history. They oppose everything that Arabs have ever done, except die, to the extent that Israel bombing Gaza is somehow compared to the popular overthrow to dictatorships in Egypt and Tunisia. The difference is that I can coherently explain why I support one campaign and not other, rather than basing my views on the skin tone of the President or reflexive Evangelical support for Israel.

Then it's dead baby dualism all the way, then, which you must admit dampens the force of your moral arguments somewhat.

Not that I have much invested in this stupid, squalid little warlet, mind you. I've no love for the Israeli Apartheid state, or the confederation of prison gangs running the Palestinian territories. They're both beastly to the point that they almost deserve each other.

[monster_gardener]

How dare they fight back against the people who starve and bomb them!

Random missile strikes on Israelis? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Pathans? Dastardly iniquity!

Israel has done a lot to Gaza (right down to actually supporting Hamas to destabilize Arafat in the 80's), where as the Pathans have done little or nothing to the US. Israel keeps Gazans in a concentration camp which they blockade and and bomb with impunity. Pathans aren't a danger to anybody except other Pathans. Oh, and the Taliban once hosted some AQ bases in their sprawling, decentralized country, all of which have since been destroyed.

But that answer might have been too detailed. Perhaps it would be easier to to say "Random missile strikes on Gaza? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Israel? Dastardly iniquity!"

You can't have it both ways, Ibrahim. Either it's wrong to bombard civvies or it's not.

Everybody else here is having it both ways. The counter-position is that IDF killing children in Gaza is a necessary defensive measure to prevent Hamas killing children in Tel Aviv.

Frankly the efforts to "catch" me on supporting one action and not another ever since the Libyan campaign have been desperate at best. Most of the right-wingers on this forum support the US killing Afghans and Iraqis, but hated overthrowing Gaddafi. They support anything Israel does, even if it mimics the most evil regimes in modern history. They oppose everything that Arabs have ever done, except die, to the extent that Israel bombing Gaza is somehow compared to the popular overthrow to dictatorships in Egypt and Tunisia. The difference is that I can coherently explain why I support one campaign and not other, rather than basing my views on the skin tone of the President or reflexive Evangelical support for Israel.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Everybody else here is having it both ways.

Not really...... I don't get the impression that HoosierNorm and a number of others are doing that.

Kudos to HoosierNorm for being Honest about the Depravity that Dwells in the Human Hearts of Killer Apes and makes us & uz Want to Watch the HandiWork of War.........

They support anything Israel does, even if it mimics the most evil regimes in modern history.

IMHO ...... Not so much..
For example though one might say that Israeli behavior is similar to that of the Turks on Cyprus * it in no way yet matches the Terror of the Turks and Kurds in Armenia.

*Had to deal with a bunch of Genocidal Jerks who wanted to throw the Turks & Israelis into the sea. The Jerks in both cases lost more land than they are willing to admit was just punishment for their misbehavior and have been bitching about it since.......

[monster_gardener]

Looking at the protests that are going on in Egypt and Jordan over this latest exchange. Might have been the point to the whole operation. They can destabilize the entire region with a few back and forth exchanges. Maybe that's why the POTUS isn't even commenting on the whole thing. Hillary is somewhere traveling and the CIA is busy having hearings over Pussy right now. It's like the whole thing was planned from the beginning.

Israel destabilized the region 60 years ago.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Israel destabilized the region 60 years ago.

And the Turks did such a literally bang up * job of administering their empire that the natives were willing to conspire with the British to get rid of the Jerks ruling them......

Reminds me of the Aztec Empire and the Tlaxcalans except that unlike the British, the Spanish largely kept their promises to the Tlaxcalans..... **

But let's not blame the Turks too much........ as

Mohamed, Umar and Islam destabilized the region centuries ago in the 600s A.D. and have been trying to Ruin the Rest of the World since.....

Fixed quote..........


*In Armenia......

** OTOH, the Brits tried to do fairly well with some of the Amerindians..... Especially in Honduras and elsewhere......

[Crocus sativus]

.


, Monster (can't stop laughing)


Britain’s Chief Rabbi, Lord Sacks, answered a question honestly because he thought he was off the air.


r8mdCWNY-g8


What the f*ck is this .. seems everything is about our beloeved Iran

In what way could Israel’s latest war (in all but name) on the Gaza Strip be “to do with Iran”, at least in part?

There are, it seems to me, three possible answers.

One can be deduced from an IDF statement yesterday that claimed Hamas had turned the Gaza Strip in a “front line base for Iran.” That could indicate an IDF perception that this base needed to be taken out.

Another possible answer is that Netanyahu authorized Israel’s air and naval bombardment to demonstrate that he is a man of action as well as words (verbal threats). The point here is that having talked up the need for an attack on Iran and then being seen to be backing off because many of his own military and intelligence chiefs (past and present) effectively joined with President Obama in saying “Don’t do it”, he needed to prove that he was prepared to continue the Zionist tradition of teaching the Arabs lessons by the application of brute force. “We Israelis are still the masters.”

A third possible answer is that it is still in his mind to attack Iran at some point but he knows that before doing so he must protect Israel’s rear by putting all who would strike at Israel from within the Gaza Strip out of action.

The bigger question waiting for an answer is whether or not Greater Israel will be more or less secure when the current war (in all but name) is over. If it ends up being less secure than it was before the assassination of Hamas’s military chief, there might be some reason to hope that enough Israelis will want to say goodbye to Netanyahu and deny him another term in office.

.

[Crocus sativus]

.


Is Israel Escalating War on Gaza to Foil US-Iran Deal ?

[Crocus sativus]

bpsS3rC4mpo

Actually I’m sceptical this current situation will escalate, we have to bear in mind that Turkey is now doing the US’s dirty work in Syria, and they are going to be incensed that as they carry on their work in Syria, it’s going to be said they care more about the Syrians than the people of Gaza. Turkey doesn’t want that to be said, so Turkey will be on the phone to Washington, meanwhile Egypt doesn’t want a mass influx of Gazans into Egypt if Israel attacks. On the other hand Egypt can’t seal the gates of Gaza like Mubarak did, so they’re going to be on the phone to Washington. In short, I think pressures is going to be brought to bear on Washington and then on Israel to agree a ceasefire.

I don't think America will interfear for some time .. BiBi gotto go .. that is the plan


.


.

[Hoosiernorm]

https://twitter.com/CAIRNational

Yup not much here either

[Ibrahim]

How dare they fight back against the people who starve and bomb them!

Random missile strikes on Israelis? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Pathans? Dastardly iniquity!

Israel has done a lot to Gaza (right down to actually supporting Hamas to destabilize Arafat in the 80's), where as the Pathans have done little or nothing to the US. Israel keeps Gazans in a concentration camp which they blockade and and bomb with impunity. Pathans aren't a danger to anybody except other Pathans. Oh, and the Taliban once hosted some AQ bases in their sprawling, decentralized country, all of which have since been destroyed.

But that answer might have been too detailed. Perhaps it would be easier to to say "Random missile strikes on Gaza? A-ok. Random missile strikes on Israel? Dastardly iniquity!"

You can't have it both ways, Ibrahim. Either it's wrong to bombard civvies or it's not.

Everybody else here is having it both ways. The counter-position is that IDF killing children in Gaza is a necessary defensive measure to prevent Hamas killing children in Tel Aviv.

Frankly the efforts to "catch" me on supporting one action and not another ever since the Libyan campaign have been desperate at best. Most of the right-wingers on this forum support the US killing Afghans and Iraqis, but hated overthrowing Gaddafi. They support anything Israel does, even if it mimics the most evil regimes in modern history. They oppose everything that Arabs have ever done, except die, to the extent that Israel bombing Gaza is somehow compared to the popular overthrow to dictatorships in Egypt and Tunisia. The difference is that I can coherently explain why I support one campaign and not other, rather than basing my views on the skin tone of the President or reflexive Evangelical support for Israel.

Then it's dead baby dualism all the way, then, which you must admit dampens the force of your moral arguments somewhat.

How so? Because I think its marginally better when casualties are caused fighting against brutal occupiers and aggressors than on their behalf?

Not that I have much invested in this stupid, squalid little warlet, mind you. I've no love for the Israeli Apartheid state, or the confederation of prison gangs running the Palestinian territories. They're both beastly to the point that they almost deserve each other.

Very worldly of you.

[Ibrahim]

https://twitter.com/CAIRNational

Yup not much here either

This post, and your invocation of the Nation of Islam in your previous post, makes no sense. Is it some kind of joke you are trying to make?

[Hoosiernorm]

There are so few voices for American Muslims that the few that there are seem to have not much to say. Cair is busy talking about lawsuits and anti discriminatory projects. The leader of the Nation of Islam is busy talking about his ongoing ministry in Chicago. I think if they called up Omar Abdel-Rahman and asked for an opinion he would probably just complain about the evil criminal justice system or not having a chance to be written up in a New York Times style piece.

I know that I'm suppose to feel badly for what's going on in Gaza, but why isn't any prominent American Muslim speaking to the matter? Are American Muslims too self concerned to give a rat's ass about the Palestinians?

[Typhoon]

NLi4l5Vxc6A

If this video is accurate, missiles intercepting missiles, then it's a impressive technology.

[Crocus sativus]

.

There are so few voices for American Muslims that the few that there are seem to have not much to say. Cair is busy talking about lawsuits and anti discriminatory projects. The leader of the Nation of Islam is busy talking about his ongoing ministry in Chicago. I think if they called up Omar Abdel-Rahman and asked for an opinion he would probably just complain about the evil criminal justice system or not having a chance to be written up in a New York Times style piece.

I know that I'm suppose to feel badly for what's going on in Gaza, but why isn't any prominent American Muslim speaking to the matter? Are American Muslims too self concerned to give a rat's ass about the Palestinians?

.

Hoosie

Muslims not a people

nor Christians a people

Was Churchill bombing Christians in Dresden ?

AND

what does it make a difference whether Muslim or Christian or Hindu or Jew .. all humans

in that sense

west, Europe, Americans , have become desensitized in Humanität

So many killings and nobody cares

that is a deliberate policy of western elite

but

it will boomerang


.

[Sparky]

Then it's dead baby dualism all the way, then, which you must admit dampens the force of your moral arguments somewhat.

How so? Because I think its marginally better when casualties are caused fighting against brutal occupiers and aggressors than on their behalf?

You may well think it, but it doesn't really come through in the writing all that often. The dead babies are usually stacked ten deep on one side of the rhetorical fence, and conspicuously absent on 'tother.

Not that I have much invested in this stupid, squalid little warlet, mind you. I've no love for the Israeli Apartheid state, or the confederation of prison gangs running the Palestinian territories. They're both beastly to the point that they almost deserve each other.

Very worldly of you.

Ahhh. *draws on ecig, exhales at length* Yes, but you would say that, wouldn't you?

[Hoosiernorm]

.

There are so few voices for American Muslims that the few that there are seem to have not much to say. Cair is busy talking about lawsuits and anti discriminatory projects. The leader of the Nation of Islam is busy talking about his ongoing ministry in Chicago. I think if they called up Omar Abdel-Rahman and asked for an opinion he would probably just complain about the evil criminal justice system or not having a chance to be written up in a New York Times style piece.

I know that I'm suppose to feel badly for what's going on in Gaza, but why isn't any prominent American Muslim speaking to the matter? Are American Muslims too self concerned to give a rat's ass about the Palestinians?

.

Hoosie

Muslims not a people

nor Christians a people

Was Churchill bombing Christians in Dresden ?

AND

what does it make a difference whether Muslim or Christian or Hindu or Jew .. all humans

in that sense

west, Europe, Americans , have become desensitized in Humanität

So many killings and nobody cares

that is a deliberate policy of western elite

but

it will boomerang


.

Every lefty in the northern hemisphere has had a chance to speak on behalf of the Palestinians and have decided to simply condemn the Jews or not speak at all. The amount of silence is deafening right now.

[Ibrahim]

There are so few voices for American Muslims that the few that there are seem to have not much to say.

SImply not true. You are looking in the wrong places, obviously. The American left generally, of all denominations and including Jews, is almost uniformly anti-Israel and has been for decades. COnservatives often complain about this, but now you say this is conspicuously absent?

Cair is busy talking about lawsuits and anti discriminatory projects.

That is CAIR's job, they are an Amerian lobby group. But they have been posting updates about the Gaza attacks as well.

The leader of the Nation of Islam

The "Nation of Islam" has nothing to do with mainstream Muslims, and Farrakhan is famous for his insane commentary generally so its just as well.

I know that I'm suppose to feel badly for what's going on in Gaza, but why isn't any prominent American Muslim speaking to the matter? Are American Muslims too self concerned to give a rat's ass about the Palestinians?

You just aren't aware of them because you are looking in other places. Check out Ali Abunimah's organization and work outwards from there. No shortage of journalists and intellectuals talking about this issue.
http://electronicintifada.net/

[Ibrahim]

Then it's dead baby dualism all the way, then, which you must admit dampens the force of your moral arguments somewhat.

How so? Because I think its marginally better when casualties are caused fighting against brutal occupiers and aggressors than on their behalf?

You may well think it, but it doesn't really come through in the writing all that often. The dead babies are usually stacked ten deep on one side of the rhetorical fence, and conspicuously absent on 'tother.

Oh, I think there are plenty to go round. If your basic accusation that I seem more upset about some than others? Guilty as charged, but then so is everyone.

Not that I have much invested in this stupid, squalid little warlet, mind you. I've no love for the Israeli Apartheid state, or the confederation of prison gangs running the Palestinian territories. They're both beastly to the point that they almost deserve each other.

Very worldly of you.

Ahhh. *draws on ecig, exhales at length* Yes, but you would say that, wouldn't you?

C'est vrai, mon ami. "Everything has been figured out, except how to live," non?

[Ibrahim]

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/israeli-p ... e-out.html

Israeli police spokesperson Micky Rosenfeld: ‘If they dare to strike Tel Aviv… we’ll wipe the whole place out’
And my colleague Allison Deger reports that when she asked Rosenfeld about Gaza hitting Tel Aviv with rockets, he was even more emphatic: "If they dare to strike Tel Aviv... we'll wipe the whole place out."

I pressed Rosenfeld about “last time.” Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009 devastated Gaza and was a debacle for Israel’s image. The country killed nearly 400 Palestinian children in under three weeks, the U.N. Human Rights Council's Goldstone Report condemned Israel for likely war crimes, and many Americans turned away from the atrocities in disgust.

“Do you have any misgivings about Cast Lead?” I asked.

Rosenfeld brushed that aside. “That is what happened in the past… Operation Cast Lead was a different phase, a different period.”

[Hans Bulvai]

There are so few voices for American Muslims that the few that there are seem to have not much to say. Cair is busy talking about lawsuits and anti discriminatory projects. The leader of the Nation of Islam is busy talking about his ongoing ministry in Chicago. I think if they called up Omar Abdel-Rahman and asked for an opinion he would probably just complain about the evil criminal justice system or not having a chance to be written up in a New York Times style piece.

I know that I'm suppose to feel badly for what's going on in Gaza, but why isn't any prominent American Muslim speaking to the matter? Are American Muslims too self concerned to give a rat's ass about the Palestinians?

There are two camps. The self concerned and those that really do care and do speak out. But in a country easily manipulated by mainstream propaganda, there is no national platform for the other side to get its version out. Even the NYT doesnot fail to remind us that "Israel has a right to defend itself"...Laughable. 400 nuclear warheads, the latest in American weapons technology, all of our money, blanket vetos, a congress that falls over itself to please beyond what little care they have for those they are supposed to represent, and israel "has a right". I guess the Palestinians living in the world's largest open air prison, whose livelyhood depends on israeli politicans have no rights what so ever. All of those Israeli's running into shelter will never be secure. Without justice there can never be security.

[Hans Bulvai]

TabG5sYO_iI