Egypt

[Ibrahim]

How seriously should one take the Morsi charge that the courts are filled with judges appointed by Mubarak who are sabotaging all efforts to change the system?

The courts are filled with Mubarak-era appointees, but on the other hand there is no reason for the judiciary to hand over powers to the executive, regardless of their political affiliation.

Its a good sign that they are having this dispute publicly, and there is nothing as stupid as the US "de-Baathification" of Iraq happening, where all the qualified people are dismissed due to their political affiliation.

[Crocus sativus]

.


The same chants used against Hosni Mubarak are used against his successor as protesters amass in Egypt.

"The people want to bring down the regime!" and "erhal, erhal" — Arabic for "leave, leave" — rang out across the plaza, this time directed at Egypt's first freely elected president.

"Power has exposed the Brotherhood. We discovered their true face," said Laila Salah, a housewife at the Tahrir protest who said she voted for Morsi in last summer's presidential election. After Mubarak, she said, Egyptians would no longer accept being ruled by an autocrat.

"It's like a wife whose husband was beating her and then she divorces him and becomes free," she said. "If she remarries she'll never accept another day of abuse."

Gehad el-Haddad, a senior adviser to the Brotherhood and its political party, said Morsi would not back down on his edicts. "We are not rescinding the declaration," he told The Associated Press.

not gonno work, Morsi a CIA plant

ElBaradei will take over



.

[Crocus sativus]

.


The left has become the right. The Muslim Brotherhood, which championed the underdog has become the Establishment. And a New Left has appeared, comprising, paradoxically, the western style liberals and centrists, secularists and leftists — in fact, all else except the Islamists.

The great fear is that the Islamists are hustling the silent majority to fall in line.

That danger exists, truly.

Even a liberal like Mohammed ElBaradei has spoken out calling Morsi a ‘new Pharaoh’.

But Morsi shows no remorse.

He is a wily fox. who has outflanked the military and the vestiges of the Mubarak era by his latest performance over Gaza, demonstrating to Washington that he can serve the western interests in the region much more effectively and credibly than anyone else in Egypt.

The Gaza conflict has been turned into a first-rate political-diplomatic chess game by Morsi. He delivered a deal that brings relief to the US and Israel. But while the iron is still hot, he also struck to consolidate his grip on power by issuing the fateful decree, calculating that he now has nothing to fear from the pro-US military and security establishment.

For the Barack Obama administration, Morsi has become a God-sent gift: he is a legitimate, democratically elected leader who is prepared to subserve the US agenda. And, to boot it, he is an Islamist, too. Morsi’s example as a covert collaborator encourages Washington to push for the Brothers taking over in Syria as well — and in Jordan, Inshah Allah.

Morsi has indeed done exceedingly well. he’s even wrapped up the $4.2 billion IMF rescue package for the Egyptian economy — with compliments from Obama, of course. Besides, he has in the kitty $2 billion each from Qatar and Turkey. Only the Saudis are keeping a wary distance.
But to consolidate, Morsi must first shake off this noisy challenge by the New Left. How he manages it remains to be seen. Will there be blood on his hands at the end of it all?
That leaves the Obama administration also with some anxious times ahead. Obama needs to make out once again which is the ‘right side of history’ in Egypt. Morsi is a prize catch — too rare to let go. On the other hand, if he decisively wins this round of the revolution in revolution on Tahrir, islamism will be unstoppably on the march in the region. And the irony is that Morsi will have smashed up irreparably the constituency that ought to have been the US’ ‘natural allies’ — liberals, centrists, secularists, etc

Hans, disaster ahead for Arabs



.

[Hans Bulvai]

Preaching to the choir amigo.
Been saying so since the begining; and not because I am a pessimist.

[monster_gardener]

.


The left has become the right. The Muslim Brotherhood, which championed the underdog has become the Establishment. And a New Left has appeared, comprising, paradoxically, the western style liberals and centrists, secularists and leftists — in fact, all else except the Islamists.

The great fear is that the Islamists are hustling the silent majority to fall in line.

That danger exists, truly.

Even a liberal like Mohammed ElBaradei has spoken out calling Morsi a ‘new Pharaoh’.

But Morsi shows no remorse.

He is a wily fox. who has outflanked the military and the vestiges of the Mubarak era by his latest performance over Gaza, demonstrating to Washington that he can serve the western interests in the region much more effectively and credibly than anyone else in Egypt.

The Gaza conflict has been turned into a first-rate political-diplomatic chess game by Morsi. He delivered a deal that brings relief to the US and Israel. But while the iron is still hot, he also struck to consolidate his grip on power by issuing the fateful decree, calculating that he now has nothing to fear from the pro-US military and security establishment.

For the Barack Obama administration, Morsi has become a God-sent gift: he is a legitimate, democratically elected leader who is prepared to subserve the US agenda. And, to boot it, he is an Islamist, too. Morsi’s example as a covert collaborator encourages Washington to push for the Brothers taking over in Syria as well — and in Jordan, Inshah Allah.

Morsi has indeed done exceedingly well. he’s even wrapped up the $4.2 billion IMF rescue package for the Egyptian economy — with compliments from Obama, of course. Besides, he has in the kitty $2 billion each from Qatar and Turkey. Only the Saudis are keeping a wary distance.
But to consolidate, Morsi must first shake off this noisy challenge by the New Left. How he manages it remains to be seen. Will there be blood on his hands at the end of it all?
That leaves the Obama administration also with some anxious times ahead. Obama needs to make out once again which is the ‘right side of history’ in Egypt. Morsi is a prize catch — too rare to let go. On the other hand, if he decisively wins this round of the revolution in revolution on Tahrir, islamism will be unstoppably on the march in the region. And the irony is that Morsi will have smashed up irreparably the constituency that ought to have been the US’ ‘natural allies’ — liberals, centrists, secularists, etc

Hans, disaster ahead for Arabs



.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

Possibly seconded........

Heard a similar story on NPR a couple of nights agao: Morsi gives Iz & Uz peace for the moment but gets a criticism free hand to impose the Muslim Brother agenda on the Egyptians.....

The Road to Sharia..........

Under an UnPharoah

Who may well get the Nobel Peace Prize.......

Egyptians seem to be resisting some.......

But don't count on Uz now...... Choom Hog the Son of a Bitch Eater Obama has a bad record on things like this generally....

Best to have a personal Plan E ready........

You might get more support from the Israeli grrlz....... At least they may strip on the web in support of you.....

[Crocus sativus]

.

.


The left has become the right. The Muslim Brotherhood, which championed the underdog has become the Establishment. And a New Left has appeared, comprising, paradoxically, the western style liberals and centrists, secularists and leftists — in fact, all else except the Islamists.

The great fear is that the Islamists are hustling the silent majority to fall in line.

That danger exists, truly.

Even a liberal like Mohammed ElBaradei has spoken out calling Morsi a ‘new Pharaoh’.

But Morsi shows no remorse.

He is a wily fox. who has outflanked the military and the vestiges of the Mubarak era by his latest performance over Gaza, demonstrating to Washington that he can serve the western interests in the region much more effectively and credibly than anyone else in Egypt.

The Gaza conflict has been turned into a first-rate political-diplomatic chess game by Morsi. He delivered a deal that brings relief to the US and Israel. But while the iron is still hot, he also struck to consolidate his grip on power by issuing the fateful decree, calculating that he now has nothing to fear from the pro-US military and security establishment.

For the Barack Obama administration, Morsi has become a God-sent gift: he is a legitimate, democratically elected leader who is prepared to subserve the US agenda. And, to boot it, he is an Islamist, too. Morsi’s example as a covert collaborator encourages Washington to push for the Brothers taking over in Syria as well — and in Jordan, Inshah Allah.

Morsi has indeed done exceedingly well. he’s even wrapped up the $4.2 billion IMF rescue package for the Egyptian economy — with compliments from Obama, of course. Besides, he has in the kitty $2 billion each from Qatar and Turkey. Only the Saudis are keeping a wary distance.
But to consolidate, Morsi must first shake off this noisy challenge by the New Left. How he manages it remains to be seen. Will there be blood on his hands at the end of it all?
That leaves the Obama administration also with some anxious times ahead. Obama needs to make out once again which is the ‘right side of history’ in Egypt. Morsi is a prize catch — too rare to let go. On the other hand, if he decisively wins this round of the revolution in revolution on Tahrir, islamism will be unstoppably on the march in the region. And the irony is that Morsi will have smashed up irreparably the constituency that ought to have been the US’ ‘natural allies’ — liberals, centrists, secularists, etc

Hans, disaster ahead for Arabs



.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

Possibly seconded........

Heard a similar story on NPR a couple of nights agao: Morsi gives Iz & Uz peace for the moment but gets a criticism free hand to impose the Muslim Brother agenda on the Egyptians.....

The Road to Sharia..........

Under an UnPharoah

Who may well get the Nobel Peace Prize.......

Egyptians seem to be resisting some.......

But don't count on Uz now...... Choom Hog the Son of a Bitch Eater Obama has a bad record on things like this generally....

Best to have a personal Plan E ready........

You might get more support from the Israeli grrlz....... At least they may strip on the web in support of you.....

.

Look, Monster

ME people are Spiritual and not (fanatic) religious

The secular, liberal, faction in ME is vast majority

but

west pushes/backs the religious fanatics into power

that is what happened in Iran

vast majority of the people who revolted against Shah were not fanatic religious faction (they were on the street but the overwhelming vast silent majority were liberal and secular, still are)

but

West (Brzezinski) promoted Khomeini thinking of USSR (Afghanistan) and communists .. once Khomeini on the power, he eliminated all secular or liberal (and communist) factions

Same thing happened in Libya, same thing happening (and will happen) in Egypt

In Egypt, the majority, liberal faction, is Mustafa ElBaradei, but America/west does not want him, West wants Morsi

Same thing happening in Syria .. secular Assad is replaced by Wahhabi and Salafi

Very vivid in Turkey .. the secular Generals that ensured Turkish path to liberalism and western style modernity, now being replaced by weird Pan-Ottoman (soft) Islamism

Notion all this to counter Iranian thread rubbish to fool western Joe

Last 70 yrs, West backed Islamist in ME to kill communists, that was the official explanation .. now, West backing Islamist to kill liberal and seculars, but the official explanation is countering Iran (brand of Islam, Shia rubbish)

Iran is not the banner holder of Islam .. in a generation, most probably Iran will be an atheist nation (already pretty much there), but Iran will be the banner of anti natural resource colonialism

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound


.

[Doc]

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound
.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why?

[Crocus sativus]

.

.

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound

.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why ?

.

"Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is" Hmmmm

CIA now morphed, merged into American military intelligence and sabotage .. all sabotage and undeclared war fought against Iranina nation right now is CIA (with Brits & German) operation .. notion CIA now diminished naive

WSJ said, in US Benghazi embassy, from 30 American officials evacuated from Benghazi following the assault, just seven worked for the State Department, 23 were CIA agents, mission was mainly a CIA operation .. “They were the cavalry,'' it quoted a senior US official as saying

It said the nearly two dozen CIA operatives secretly worked out of a separate building known as the “annex,’’ where officials at the consulate had retreated following the initial attack before coming under fire again.

America waging a war against Iranian Nation, since 1953, but in all out force since 1979 .. this done by CIA

But, must agree with you that CIA no more effective .. reason is not CIA has not effective human intel, reason is, the opponents are now as literate, smart, sophisticated if not more .. Iranians who count (below 50 yrs age) are now 100% literate, know what is happening in the world "minute by minute", they now impossible to be fooled anymore, and those cooperating with CIA, they traitors and do not count .. key is the mass and the mass not the mass used to be .. yes, true, lion not lion used to be, sheep not the sheep used to be


.

[Ibrahim]

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound
.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why?

CIA interference did help dramatically alter the course of Iranian history at a pivotal moment, even if it didn't turn out the way the CIA wanted in the end. This is a reasonable thing to remember and talk about since it still directly influences Iranian politics.


Of course the CIA could never do anything like this today. The modern CIA is simply a clearing house for fly-by shootings and outsourcing torture, they don't even do the illegal domestic wire-tapping. Iranians are overestimating their capabilities.

[Azrael]

AJE interview with chairman of committee to write Egyptian Constitution

A few things that impressed me:
Tough interview.
This guy speaks better English than a former U. S. President does.

[Crocus sativus]

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound
.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why?

CIA interference did help dramatically alter the course of Iranian history at a pivotal moment, even if it didn't turn out the way the CIA wanted in the end. This is a reasonable thing to remember and talk about since it still directly influences Iranian politics.


Of course the CIA could never do anything like this today. The modern CIA is simply a clearing house for fly-by shootings and outsourcing torture, they don't even do the illegal domestic wire-tapping. Iranians are overestimating their capabilities.

.

Pentagon will send hundreds of additional spies overseas as part of an ambitious plan to assemble an espionage network that rivals the CIA in size, U.S. officials said . .
The project is aimed at transforming the Defense Intelligence Agency, which has been dominated for the past decade by the demands of two wars, into a spy service focused on emerging threats and more closely aligned with the CIA and elite military commando units.

Among the Pentagon’s top intelligence priorities, officials said, are Islamist militant groups in Africa, weapons transfers by North Korea and Iran, and military modernization underway in China.

Much more @ link

.

.

[Doc]

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound
.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why?

CIA interference did help dramatically alter the course of Iranian history at a pivotal moment, even if it didn't turn out the way the CIA wanted in the end. This is a reasonable thing to remember and talk about since it still directly influences Iranian politics.


Of course the CIA could never do anything like this today. The modern CIA is simply a clearing house for fly-by shootings and outsourcing torture, they don't even do the illegal domestic wire-tapping. Iranians are overestimating their capabilities.

I don't agree about fly by shootings where the option of capture is remotely possible. And why outsource something that you are not willing to do yourself?

Azari -- Your conclusion that the CIA is doing things What are you going to say when the US no longer imports oil? The US is already down to importing 20% of it energy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... IQ20121112

[monster_gardener]

AJE interview with chairman of committee to write Egyptian Constitution

A few things that impressed me:
Tough interview.
This guy speaks better English than a former U. S. President does.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azrael.

This guy speaks better English than a former U. S. President does.

Quite right you are

And not just Bush W the Plant

I remember a book published when Peanut Brained Jimmy Carter, another ambulatory plant* , became Present Dunce oops I mean President of Uz.......

IIRC it was titled "How to Speak Southern" and attempted to make Carter intelligible....

Not always successfully ***


But you must remember that in Uz/America we do NOT speak English

And English is NOT the Official Language of Uz/America......

The English have known this for quite some time, a mentioned in "My Fair Lady"

In some places English completely disappears!
In American, it hasn't been spoken for years!

We Uz mostly speak UhMeriKun/Merican which lately is grading into Spanglish

Merican is Mostly Mutually Intelligible with English But Beware... Words can differ........

A Uz boy giving a "Lift to a Lorry" is Likely to have much more fun than a British Boy doing the same thing. **


*I Strongly Suspect that Carter being a plant was a factor in the Naval Attack on him by a Rabbit Rascal probably a Relative of Bugs Bunny who thought Carter was Carrot or Elmer Fudd

The story "President Attacked by Rabbit" was carried across the front page of The Washington Post, though the White House's refusal to release the photograph resulted in the newspaper using a cartoon parody of the Jaws poster labeled "PAWS" as its illustration.[99]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Cart ... t_incident

**Giving a Ride to a Girl vs. Putting an Elevator on a Truck

***Furriners like Russians & Iranians and the like on the PETA hate list especially had problems with him.......

[Crocus sativus]

.

Azari -- Your conclusion that the CIA is doing things What are you going to say when the US no longer imports oil? The US is already down to importing 20% of it energy.

.

Those 500+ American military bases in all the world are not to ensure American Oil & Gas import .. never were

Access to secure and reliable "Energy", Oil & Gas, key in a nation's potential for growth (Brits held back Oil from Hitler, sanction, and Hitler did what he did, same with Japan when Oil were cut to Japan next day they attacked Pearl Harbor)

America objective is to be the ARBITER for who gets how much, meaning controlling economic lifeline of other powers, China, Europe, etc .. that would give America a competitive advantage for many things on the theater of world economy

America, Canada, swimming on Oil and Gas, probably biggest Oil & gas holders, this no secret, Strait of Georgia (Vancouver Island) is all Oil (and gas) and and

Iran, selling oil to everybody, does not use oil as a weapon against others .. not so America (or Canada or west), American LNG exports are "officially and openly" strictly politically focused, who gets (and how much) and who not

In short, America wants to control, be ARBITER, of lifeline (Energy and other vital resources), to control other powers .. that is exactly what lead to WW 1 and WW 2 .. German economy needed Energy (Oil) and metals (copper and Iron etc) to grow, but Brits wanted to keep German economy (leading to German economic and military might) down therefore limiting German access to Oil and resources .. result was, German Capital found, financed, helped to power, an (national) extremist to tak over power and wipe out British empire, and he did (a good job) .. same thing could happen now with America

Exactly same scenario happening now .. Energy and natural resources access is controlled by America/West trying to choke China (and Japan if falling out of line) and others .. meaning .. a big BANG ahead

issue with Iran not nuclear bomb .. Iran asking a too high price for fallin in line with west, and, is siding with China .. Turkey in western boat (a mistake which could lead to a 2nd Turkish retreat last 100 yrs)

China knows all this and preparing for the BANG ahead


.

[Doc]

.

Azari -- Your conclusion that the CIA is doing things What are you going to say when the US no longer imports oil? The US is already down to importing 20% of it energy.

.

Those 500+ American military bases in all the world are not to ensure American Oil & Gas import .. never were

Access to secure and reliable "Energy", Oil & Gas, key in a nation's potential for growth (Brits held back Oil from Hitler, sanction, and Hitler did what he did, same with Japan when Oil were cut to Japan next day they attacked Pearl Harbor)

America objective is to be the ARBITER for who gets how much, meaning controlling economic lifeline of other powers, China, Europe, etc .. that would give America a competitive advantage for many things on the theater of world economy

America, Canada, swimming on Oil and Gas, probably biggest Oil & gas holders, this no secret, Strait of Georgia (Vancouver Island) is all Oil (and gas) and and

Iran, selling oil to everybody, does not use oil as a weapon against others .. not so America (or Canada or west), American LNG exports are "officially and openly" strictly politically focused, who gets (and how much) and who not

In short, America wants to control, be ARBITER, of lifeline (Energy and other vital resources), to control other powers .. that is exactly what lead to WW 1 and WW 2 .. German economy needed Energy (Oil) and metals (copper and Iron etc) to grow, but Brits wanted to keep German economy (leading to German economic and military might) down therefore limiting German access to Oil and resources .. result was, German Capital found, financed, helped to power, an (national) extremist to tak over power and wipe out British empire, and he did (a good job) .. same thing could happen now with America

Exactly same scenario happening now .. Energy and natural resources access is controlled by America/West trying to choke China (and Japan if falling out of line) and others .. meaning .. a big BANG ahead

issue with Iran not nuclear bomb .. Iran asking a too high price for fallin in line with west, and, is siding with China .. Turkey in western boat (a mistake which could lead to a 2nd Turkish retreat last 100 yrs)

China knows all this and preparing for the BANG ahead
.

But China now also has all the reserves it needs domestically.
If fact under US leadership the world has cut the world hunger rate in half and is on the verge of stopping the Aids Virus.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/endin ... say-85215/

Ending Global Hunger Within Reach

Am I to suppose that those come at too high of prices to pay?

[Ibrahim]

so, do not be fooled of this Islam rubbish .. all CIA conspiracy to steal ME resources to the last drop and pound
.

Azari why are Iranians always so paranoid about the CIA? 1953 was 60 years ago. The CIA at the time was vastly more effective in human intel. Now they mostly don't have a clue as to what that is.

But say "CIA" in a room full of Iranians and everyone stops to listen. Why?

CIA interference did help dramatically alter the course of Iranian history at a pivotal moment, even if it didn't turn out the way the CIA wanted in the end. This is a reasonable thing to remember and talk about since it still directly influences Iranian politics.


Of course the CIA could never do anything like this today. The modern CIA is simply a clearing house for fly-by shootings and outsourcing torture, they don't even do the illegal domestic wire-tapping. Iranians are overestimating their capabilities.

I don't agree about fly by shootings where the option of capture is remotely possible.

The utility and morality of the drone program are both under discussion in a thread I started for the purpose, but the point here is that the CIA is less about intelligence gathering and fancy Cold War-era plots and more about kill/capture off of a list of swarthy and allegedly very dangerous men.

And why outsource something that you are not willing to do yourself?

American courts are suspicious of torture, but the US intelligence community seems to think its a good idea (over the protests of the FBI), so they send people to foreign countries where they can be tortured either under CIA observation or with the intel produced being sent back to the CIA.

[Crocus sativus]

.

Azari -- Your conclusion that the CIA is doing things What are you going to say when the US no longer imports oil? The US is already down to importing 20% of it energy.

.

Those 500+ American military bases in all the world are not to ensure American Oil & Gas import .. never were

Access to secure and reliable "Energy", Oil & Gas, key in a nation's potential for growth (Brits held back Oil from Hitler, sanction, and Hitler did what he did, same with Japan when Oil were cut to Japan next day they attacked Pearl Harbor)

America objective is to be the ARBITER for who gets how much, meaning controlling economic lifeline of other powers, China, Europe, etc .. that would give America a competitive advantage for many things on the theater of world economy

America, Canada, swimming on Oil and Gas, probably biggest Oil & gas holders, this no secret, Strait of Georgia (Vancouver Island) is all Oil (and gas) and and

Iran, selling oil to everybody, does not use oil as a weapon against others .. not so America (or Canada or west), American LNG exports are "officially and openly" strictly politically focused, who gets (and how much) and who not

In short, America wants to control, be ARBITER, of lifeline (Energy and other vital resources), to control other powers .. that is exactly what lead to WW 1 and WW 2 .. German economy needed Energy (Oil) and metals (copper and Iron etc) to grow, but Brits wanted to keep German economy (leading to German economic and military might) down therefore limiting German access to Oil and resources .. result was, German Capital found, financed, helped to power, an (national) extremist to tak over power and wipe out British empire, and he did (a good job) .. same thing could happen now with America

Exactly same scenario happening now .. Energy and natural resources access is controlled by America/West trying to choke China (and Japan if falling out of line) and others .. meaning .. a big BANG ahead

issue with Iran not nuclear bomb .. Iran asking a too high price for fallin in line with west, and, is siding with China .. Turkey in western boat (a mistake which could lead to a 2nd Turkish retreat last 100 yrs)

China knows all this and preparing for the BANG ahead
.

But China now also has all the reserves it needs domestically.
If fact under US leadership the world has cut the world hunger rate in half and is on the verge of stopping the Aids Virus.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/endin ... say-85215/

Ending Global Hunger Within Reach

Am I to suppose that those come at too high of prices to pay ?

.

2 separate issues

1st issue, "Present World Order" .. that order says, West leads the world, is Arbiter of everything .. if nations, submit to that order, west will take care of them (according to West's economic and
national interest) .. that no secret but quite open and official .. submissions would mean accept western (mostly American) leadership in pretty much everything .. if not, you rogue state and terrorist and will be fucked, like Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad and others to come .. many states unhappy with this, but to weak to withstand .. African, South America, even many Arab and ME nations unhappy but to weak

States like Iran, do not accept anymore western, (American) leadership and "world Order" .. follow an independent path .. in that case, nations like Iran are cut, one by one, from services that west, America has established, like SWIFT and and .. Iran and other nations will exit those services and establish a new way to accomplish the same .. if other nations join Iran, that would threaten dominance of west, America .. this already happening .. all Iran has to do is drag this along until nations leave western dominance and join the independents until critical mass is reached .. China, India, Turkey, Brazil, Argentina, some African nations etc etc come to mind .. once critical mass reached, meaning enough nations and economies quite western dominance, Dollar currency and and and, the independents will establish their own channels of doing things .. that will weaken further western dominance .. that lead to (not two but) "Multi Polar World" .. all this already happening, West failing to silence Iran


2nd issue, if and when China AND India kick in, there not enough of any kind of resource to everybody

Per Capita Crude Oil Consumption

Per Capita, America consumes 22.5 b/yr, China 2.5 b/yr, India 1.0 b/yr

Same situation exist with other minerals and food and and and

China and India becoming affluent and will need, say, per capita, 5 b/yr .. for that American consumption must fall 50% .. much worst situation for Europe

all the above will force dramatic changes, hardship and might lead to war



.

[monster_gardener]

.

Azari -- Your conclusion that the CIA is doing things What are you going to say when the US no longer imports oil? The US is already down to importing 20% of it energy.

.

Those 500+ American military bases in all the world are not to ensure American Oil & Gas import .. never were

Access to secure and reliable "Energy", Oil & Gas, key in a nation's potential for growth (Brits held back Oil from Hitler, sanction, and Hitler did what he did, same with Japan when Oil were cut to Japan next day they attacked Pearl Harbor)

America objective is to be the ARBITER for who gets how much, meaning controlling economic lifeline of other powers, China, Europe, etc .. that would give America a competitive advantage for many things on the theater of world economy

America, Canada, swimming on Oil and Gas, probably biggest Oil & gas holders, this no secret, Strait of Georgia (Vancouver Island) is all Oil (and gas) and and

Iran, selling oil to everybody, does not use oil as a weapon against others .. not so America (or Canada or west), American LNG exports are "officially and openly" strictly politically focused, who gets (and how much) and who not

In short, America wants to control, be ARBITER, of lifeline (Energy and other vital resources), to control other powers .. that is exactly what lead to WW 1 and WW 2 .. German economy needed Energy (Oil) and metals (copper and Iron etc) to grow, but Brits wanted to keep German economy (leading to German economic and military might) down therefore limiting German access to Oil and resources .. result was, German Capital found, financed, helped to power, an (national) extremist to tak over power and wipe out British empire, and he did (a good job) .. same thing could happen now with America

Exactly same scenario happening now .. Energy and natural resources access is controlled by America/West trying to choke China (and Japan if falling out of line) and others .. meaning .. a big BANG ahead

issue with Iran not nuclear bomb .. Iran asking a too high price for fallin in line with west, and, is siding with China .. Turkey in western boat (a mistake which could lead to a 2nd Turkish retreat last 100 yrs)

China knows all this and preparing for the BANG ahead
.

But China now also has all the reserves it needs domestically.
If fact under US leadership the world has cut the world hunger rate in half and is on the verge of stopping the Aids Virus.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/endin ... say-85215/

Ending Global Hunger Within Reach

Am I to suppose that those come at too high of prices to pay ?

.

2 separate issues

1st issue, "Present World Order" .. that order says, West leads the world, is Arbiter of everything .. if nations, submit to that order, west will take care of them (according to West's economic and
national interest) .. that no secret but quite open and official .. submissions would mean accept western (mostly American) leadership in pretty much everything .. if not, you rogue state and terrorist and will be fucked, like Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad and others to come .. many states unhappy with this, but to weak to withstand .. African, South America, even many Arab and ME nations unhappy but to weak

States like Iran, do not accept anymore western, (American) leadership and "world Order" .. follow an independent path .. in that case, nations like Iran are cut, one by one, from services that west, America has established, like SWIFT and and .. Iran and other nations will exit those services and establish a new way to accomplish the same .. if other nations join Iran, that would threaten dominance of west, America .. this already happening .. all Iran has to do is drag this along until nations leave western dominance and join the independents until critical mass is reached .. China, India, Turkey, Brazil, Argentina, some African nations etc etc come to mind .. once critical mass reached, meaning enough nations and economies quite western dominance, Dollar currency and and and, the independents will establish their own channels of doing things .. that will weaken further western dominance .. that lead to (not two but) "Multi Polar World" .. all this already happening, West failing to silence Iran


2nd issue, if and when China AND India kick in, there not enough of any kind of resource to everybody

Per Capita Crude Oil Consumption

Per Capita, America consumes 22.5 b/yr, China 2.5 b/yr, India 1.0 b/yr

Same situation exist with other minerals and food and and and

China and India becoming affluent and will need, say, per capita, 5 b/yr .. for that American consumption must fall 50% .. much worst situation for Europe

all the above will force dramatic changes, hardship and might lead to war



.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Per Capita Crude Oil Consumption

Per Capita, America consumes 22.5 b/yr, China 2.5 b/yr, India 1.0 b/yr

Same situation exist with other minerals and food and and and

China and India becoming affluent and will need, say, per capita, 5 b/yr .. for that American consumption must fall 50% .. much worst situation for Europe

all the above will force dramatic changes, hardship and might lead to war

In that case, it is past time to get off the oil spigot.......

Time to go CANDU until there is something better..... Can use natural uranium without any enrichment or the even more abundant thorium or even nuclear waste.........

For the other minerals...... why not mine the asteroids........... We need to be out there anyway to stop them from hitting Earth.............

As far as food goes...... My understanding is that there is enough for everyone but that the problem is getting it distributed.......

Remembering the Ethiopian Famine........ So much was lost to corruption.......

IMVHO tech solutions are often simpler and easier than Changing Chaos Monkey Hearts & Minds.............

[Hoosiernorm]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

[Ibrahim]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

I was this exact same story this morning and thought it meant that he had stepped down as President, not simply vacated a building which is under potential attack. Though one may perhaps be a precursor to the other.

The protesters have the right idea, if they are unsatisfied with the results and thing they have exchanged one tyrant for another then they should keep the ball rolling. Spengler is probably tickled pink over this, favoring as he does any chaos and violence in any Arab country, but I doubt he was wide readership among Cairo protesters.

[Hoosiernorm]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

I was this exact same story this morning and thought it meant that he had stepped down as President, not simply vacated a building which is under potential attack. Though one may perhaps be a precursor to the other.

The protesters have the right idea, if they are unsatisfied with the results and thing they have exchanged one tyrant for another then they should keep the ball rolling. Spengler is probably tickled pink over this, favoring as he does any chaos and violence in any Arab country, but I doubt he was wide readership among Cairo protesters.

Who is the most popular Jewish columnist in Egypt? Is there one?

[Ibrahim]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

I was this exact same story this morning and thought it meant that he had stepped down as President, not simply vacated a building which is under potential attack. Though one may perhaps be a precursor to the other.

The protesters have the right idea, if they are unsatisfied with the results and thing they have exchanged one tyrant for another then they should keep the ball rolling. Spengler is probably tickled pink over this, favoring as he does any chaos and violence in any Arab country, but I doubt he was wide readership among Cairo protesters.

Who is the most popular Jewish columnist in Egypt? Is there one?

I have no idea, but there are enough Arab Jews in the region that I'm sure there is at least one Jewish columnist writing in Arabic.

[Doc]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

I was this exact same story this morning and thought it meant that he had stepped down as President, not simply vacated a building which is under potential attack. Though one may perhaps be a precursor to the other.

The protesters have the right idea, if they are unsatisfied with the results and thing they have exchanged one tyrant for another then they should keep the ball rolling. Spengler is probably tickled pink over this, favoring as he does any chaos and violence in any Arab country, but I doubt he was wide readership among Cairo protesters.

Who is the most popular Jewish columnist in Egypt? Is there one?

I have no idea, but there are enough Arab Jews in the region that I'm sure there is at least one Jewish columnist writing in Arabic.

Lara Logan?

http://nation.foxnews.com/lara-logan/20 ... lara-logan

[Ibrahim]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/ ... GP20121204

Egypt's Mursi leaves palace as police battle protesters

Egyptian police battled thousands of protesters outside President Mohamed Mursi's palace in Cairo on Tuesday, prompting the Islamist leader to leave the building, presidency sources said.

Officers fired teargas at up to 10,000 demonstrators angered by Mursi's drive to hold a referendum on a new constitution on December 15. Some broke through police lines around his palace and protested next to the perimeter wall.

Here we go again

I was this exact same story this morning and thought it meant that he had stepped down as President, not simply vacated a building which is under potential attack. Though one may perhaps be a precursor to the other.

The protesters have the right idea, if they are unsatisfied with the results and thing they have exchanged one tyrant for another then they should keep the ball rolling. Spengler is probably tickled pink over this, favoring as he does any chaos and violence in any Arab country, but I doubt he was wide readership among Cairo protesters.

Who is the most popular Jewish columnist in Egypt? Is there one?

I have no idea, but there are enough Arab Jews in the region that I'm sure there is at least one Jewish columnist writing in Arabic.

Lara Logan?

http://nation.foxnews.com/lara-logan/20 ... lara-logan

Nice to exploit her sexual assault to make a joke to five people on a forum. Anyway she's a rabid "kill 'em all" Muslim-hater now, perhaps understandably, so there might be some good overlap in readership with the SpengFor gang.

The story was that the same gang of hicks that Mubarak shipped in for his failed bid to stage a "counter-protest" were responsible for the attack, but who knows for sure and besides not everybody can tell one Arab from another.

[Hans Bulvai]

[quote
When Iranian communist challenged Khomeini Iranians wanted lower food prices, Khomeini replied : only donkey revolts for their stomach, humans revolt for much more than that

Looks like the "donkeys" are revolting Azari...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 70652.html

"Bread, freedom and Islamic Sharia!" thousands of Muslim Brotherhood supporters chanted on Alexandria's central Al-Qaed Ibrahim Square 10 days ago, as they waved Egyptian flags and held up pictures of President Morsi.

"Bread, freedom and social justice!" their opponents, who had turned out in even greater numbers and included secular Egyptians, leftists and liberals, shouted in return. It was a rude awakening for the Islamists in Alexandria, which had been considered one of their strongholds.

With all due respect, Khomeini's philosophy holds no water as far as Egyptians are concerned.