At least 27 die in school shooting in Connecticut | 1

[Mr. Perfect]

Yes, I am of the long view.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Time is always on the side of the barbarian.

[Ammianus]

It is not an essential service of government to provide protection. It is an essential function of the government to execute justice. It is the responsibility of each citizens to protect himself. Only a cowed and effeminate citzenry would say something like that(although I suspect women understand defending precious things more than these broken men).

If you want the government to provide protection, move to Detroit and ask for Robocop.

Back to your version 1.0 two years ago I see. Did you even bother to parse what that guy was getting at?

[Demon of Undoing]

Yes, I am of the long view.

And a gun ban is involved in apocalyptic misinterpretations exactly how?

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Not much reason to parse the words of someone who believes the primary responsibility for protection of me and my family lies with the state.

[monster_gardener]

Gun-related homicides will drop, as is the case in other industrialized nations that have very restricted access to weapons. As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan makes me feel better.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Zack Morris.

And Thank You VERY MUCH for some the excellent posts you have elsewhere on the forum.

However........

As for wolves coming after the sheep, the relative lack of these incidents in Europe and Japan

Considering recent history especially the 20th Century, I suspect the case is different if German and other Government Sponsored Were-Wolves wearing Funky Fylflots * on their uniforms are considered

And too many of their victims acted like Sheep for the Slaughter......

When the Werewolves should have been met by Defiance and Silver Bullets

Perhaps there would have been more if the Gun laws of Germany were like those of Uz........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_%282008_film%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielski_partisans

Lots of Incidents much worse than this..... Millions killed........

* Swastika
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylfot

The uprisings in Poland ended up getting more people killed. In the 1940's, insurgent tactics didn't work all that well because they were met with carpet bombing as a response (which is politically untenable today). Rifles would not have saved the Jews and would probably have gotten more people killed.

Thank you VERY Much for your reply, Zack Morris.

You may be right.........

In this time line......

Alternate idea to research.......Unfortunately I don't have time for it now......

But if the Germans had won....... hopefully only for the time being in Europe........

As in the Fatherland timeline.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_%28novel%29


Then it would have been better to have resisted more and by any means necessary as Nazism is a Meme Much More Malicious than even the Malignant Muslim Meme is.....

I might probably side with Aztecs against Nazis.......

Jews & Gypsies were definitely on the extermination list........

Not sure if Slavs were on the list too or just" scheduled for slavery.......

In a case like that every blow struck killing or wounding a German Goon killed was righteous.....

Something that might weaken the Beast for someone else to slay.....

Or bite it with one's teeth or other weapon to give it Gas Gangrene so it would die on its own......

[Hoosiernorm]

Man I hate when it all turns to this

[Yukon Cornelius]

It just occurred to me: if the shooter was Muslim, this wouldn't be about gun control. At some (what?) point do acts like this jump to the "terrorism" meme?

[Mr. Perfect]

When politics is involved for the shooter.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

It just occurred to me: if the shooter was Muslim, this wouldn't be about gun control. At some (what?) point do acts like this jump to the "terrorism" meme?

The assumption, perhaps rightly, is that a motivated Muslim terrorist is going to get a weapon one way or another, while an autistic psycho might be thwarted long enough to lavender himself in a Macy's and get put on the grid.

[Yukon Cornelius]

JN: I hear you, but if you look at the Norway shooter, he actually tried to get his weapons illegally, then got them legally.

[Crocus sativus]

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Mr. Perfect , the "Goose" is done


“We can’t tolerate this any more. These tragedies must end and to end them we must change,” Mr Obama told a prayer vigil in Newtown

“Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?”

well, MP, you gettin the message ? ? ?

Chuck Schumer, the New York senator, and Dick Durbin, the Illinois senator, both members of the Democratic leadership in the upper chamber, joined the call, suggesting the massacre in Connecticut could be a tipping point for the debate over gun control in the US.

“I think that what happened in Newtown, Connecticut, may at least lead some to finally decide to sit down and have this conversation,” Mr Durbin said on Fox News on Sunday, suggesting the impact on public opinion could be comparable to the terrorist attacks of 2001.

“I really think we may have a chance [of passing an assault weapons ban] because of this terrible tragedy. That’s what happened after 9/11. It can happen after Newtown, Connecticut, as well,” Mr Durbin said.

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[Doc]

http://psychiatricfraud.org/2011/04/the ... -violence/
The real lesson of Columbine: psychiatric drugs induce violence.

On this 12-year anniversary of the shooting rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, let us not forget the real lesson of Columbine: psychiatric drugs induce violence.

Shooter Eric Harris was taking the antidepressant Luvox at the time he and Dylan Klebold opened fire at Columbine High School, killing 12 students and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves. At least one public report exists of a friend of Klebold who witnessed Klebold taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft and urged him to come off them. Officially, Klebold’s medical records remain sealed.

Luvox, Paxil and Zoloft are in a class of drugs called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Among the international regulatory agencies issuing warnings on these antidepressants, the FDA issued a Public Health Advisory in 2004 warning that “anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, impulsivity, akathisia [severe restlessness], hypomania [abnormal excitement] and mania [psychosis characterized by exalted feelings, delusions of grandeur and overproduction of ideas] have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants.” (For further information on international studies and warnings about antidepressants, go to CCHR International’s psychiatric drug side effects search engine.)

Luvox, Paxil and other antidepressants also made the top 10 list of violence-inducing prescription drugs in a report from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices, which was based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System (see “Study Reveals Top Ten Violence-Inducing Prescription Drugs [– Eight Are Psychiatric Drugs]”).

Dr. Ann Blake Tracy, executive director of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness and author of Prozac: Panacea or Pandora? – Our Serotonin Nightmare, is an expert consultant in cases like Columbine in which antidepressants are involved.

Columbine shooter Eric Harris

Dr. Tracy says the Columbine killers’ brains were awash in serotonin, the chemical which causes violence and aggression and triggers a sleep-walking disorder in which a person literally acts out their worst nightmare. Harris became obsessed with homicidal and suicidal thoughts “within weeks” after he began taking Zoloft, according to Dr. Tracy. Due to his obsession with killing, Harris was switched to Luvox, which was in his system at the time of the shooting, according to his autopsy. However, the change from Zoloft to Luvox is like switching from Pepsi to Coke, Dr. Tracy said.

A growing number of school shootings and other shooting rampages were committed by individuals under the influence of, or in withdrawal from, psychiatric drugs known to cause mania, psychosis, violence and even homicide. Consider this list of 13 massacres over the past decade or so, resulting in 54 dead and 105 wounded – and these are just the ones where the psychiatric drugs are known. In other cases, medical records were sealed or autopsy reports not made public or, in some cases, toxicology tests were either not done to test for psychiatric drugs or not disclosed to the public. But this is what we do know about the mental health “treatment” of those who committed these acts of violence:

Dekalb, Illinois – February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 16 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system.
Omaha, Nebraska – December 5, 2007: 19-year-old Robert Hawkins killed eight people and wounded five before committing suicide in an Omaha mall. Hawkins’ friend told CNN that the gunman was on antidepressants, and autopsy results confirmed he was under the influence of the “anti-anxiety” drug Valium.
Jokela, Finland – November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.
Cleveland, Ohio – October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.
Blacksburg, Virginia – April 16, 2007: 23-year-old Seung Hui Cho shot to death 32 students and faculty of Virginia Tech, wounding 17 more, and then killing himself. He had received prior mental health treatment, however his mental health records remained sealed.
Red Lake, Minnesota – March 2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise, on Prozac, shot and killed his grandparents, then went to his school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation where he shot dead 7 students and a teacher, and wounded 7 before killing himself.
Greenbush, New York – February 2004: 16-year-old Jon Romano strolled into his high school in east Greenbush and opened fire with a shotgun. Special education teacher Michael Bennett was hit in the leg. Romano had been taking “medication for depression”.
El Cajon, California – March 22, 2001: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on the antidepressants Celexa and Effexor, opened fire on his classmates, wounding three students and two teachers at Granite Hills High School.
Williamsport, Pennsylvania – March 7, 2001: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was taking the antidepressant Prozac when she shot at fellow students, wounding one.
Conyers, Georgia – May 20, 1999: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with antidepressants when he opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.
Columbine, Colorado – April 20, 1999: 18-year-old Eric Harris and his accomplice, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 26 others before killing themselves. Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox. Klebold’s medical records remain sealed.
Notus, Idaho – April 16, 1999: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school, narrowly missing students. He was taking a prescribed SSRI antidepressant and Ritalin.
Springfield, Oregon – May 21, 1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 22. Kinkel had been taking the antidepressant Prozac.



Filmmaker Michael Moore, who directed the documentary “Bowling for Columbine,” has said this, following his extensive look at the Columbine tragedy:

“In Bowling for Columbine,” we never really came up with the answer in terms of why this happened. I think we did a good job of exposing [that] all the reasons that were given were a bunch of B.S. ….And none of it really made any sense. That’s why I believe there should be an investigation in terms of what…prescribed pharmaceuticals these kids were on….

“It just would be shocking…to the millions of parents who prescribe this for their kids if it was finally explained to them, if this is the case, that this perhaps occurred for no other reason other than because of these prescriptions. “Imagine what that would do, imagine how people would totally re-think things – grasping for every little straw they can to explain why something like Columbine happens, when in fact it may be nothing more than this. How else do you explain two otherwise decent kids, very smart, no history of violence to other kids in the school – why them, why did this happen? It’s an extremely legitimate question to pose, and it demands an investigation.” (See the video clip of Michael Moore here.)

Given the growing list of shooters who were on psychiatric drugs, given the fact that 22 international drug regulatory agencies warn these drugs can cause violence, mania, psychosis, suicide and even homicide, and given the fact that a major study was just released confirming these drugs put people at greater risk of becoming violent, CCHR International asserts: “Any recommendation for more mental health ‘treatment,’ which [inevitably] means putting more people and more kids on these [psychiatric] drugs, is not only negligent, but considering the possible repercussions, criminal.”

[Mr. Perfect]

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Mr. Perfect , the "Goose" is done

well, MP, you gettin the message ? ? ?

Croc, no message, no gun law will stop this, Obama cannot stop this, Schumer cannot stop this, only can stop it are armed Americans gunning these people down. That's it.

This is called "copycat crime", way to stop copycat is to ignore or gun down in a hail of lead. Then they stop.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Seems a bit arbitrary, guys. We somehow want weed legal, but semiauto rifles illegal. How many people will drive impared (and kill/damage) this year? How many will die from gang violence? Within correctional facilities?

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit hysterics in answer to a real tragedy among much larger tragedies that are just grist for the mill.

[Yukon Cornelius]

And, good lord, looking at the death rates from distracted drivers on their cell phones just now... FFS...


Let's invade Cellphonistan.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Wait, numerically speaking, if we banned cell phones, think of the lives we could save every year?

[Ammianus]

So apparently gun control now = weed control now = cell phone control. And on the other side we have mourning for gun victims = hypocrisy for not mourning Pakistani drone victims.

Pater Deo. This stuff really does bring the froth and foam from people's mouths.

[Dioscuri]

Good news guys, we're seeing some typical conservative clarity of thinking here. Some real realists.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/33 ... -d-j-jaffe

President Obama said the federal government has to do something meaningful to prevent future shootings, like the recent massacre of 26 children and adults at a school in Newtown, Connecticut. Here is what the federal government can do to prevent violence related to mental illness:

.....

4. Create a federal definition of serious mental illness, and require that the vast majority of mental-health funding go to it.

There is more than enough money in the mental-health system to prevent Newtown-type incidents, provided it is spent on people who are truly ill, not the worried-well.

• 
States should make sure their civil-commitment laws include all the following, not just “danger to self or others: (A) Is “gravely disabled”, which means that the person is substantially unable, except for reasons of indigence, to provide for any of his or her basic needs, such as food, clothing, shelter, health or safety, or (B) is likely to “substantially deteriorate” if not provided with timely treatment, or 
(C) lacks capacity, which means that as a result of the brain disorder, the person is unable to fully understand or lacks judgment to make an informed decision regarding his or her need for treatment, care, or supervision.


• When the “dangerousness standard” is used, it must be interpreted more broadly than “imminently” and/or “provably” dangerous.


State laws should also allow for consideration of a patient’s record in making determinations about court-ordered treatment, since history is often a reliable way to anticipate the future course of illness. (Currently, it is like criminal procedures: what you did in the past presumably has no bearing, so the court may not know past history when deciding whether to commit someone. In fact, there are ways to know which mentally ill individuals become or are likely to become violent.)

Important to stress a few things here:

It DOES NOT MATTER what the Federal Definition of Serious Mental Illness (FED-SEMI) actually is, it only matters that there is one.

And whatever that Federal Definition is, it is important that the states interpret it broadly.

BUT NOT so broadly that some service could be given to someone "for reasons of indigence." VERY important.

Also extremely important that the Defined "Mentally Ill" be strictly separated from the "worried-well." This is as crucial as it gets. You gotta keep those two apart. Clear Eyes. Full Hearts. Can't Lose. This is almost as important as remembering personal responsibility.

The really, really sick ones, no, they're not like ones that are just, well, worried. It's as clear as day. The two just don't have anything to do with each other, they just don't.

[monster_gardener]

.

Mr. Perfect , the "Goose" is done

well, MP, you gettin the message ? ? ?

Croc, no message, no gun law will stop this, Obama cannot stop this, Schumer cannot stop this, only can stop it are armed Americans gunning these people down. That's it.

This is called "copycat crime", way to stop copycat is to ignore or gun down in a hail of lead. Then they stop.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Mr. Perfect.

Largely seconded though I think there are other things that could be done.

Besides conducting humiliating funeral rites for the perps such as hanging the perp's gruesome dead body in chains followed by cremation in dung fire..........

On national TV, webcams and YouTube for all the world to see...........

Instead of adulatory funeral rites: Lots of makeup or a closed coffin and "He/she was such a sweet boy/grrl don't know what went wrong...........

One suggestion I have heard is going back to institutionalizing the potentially dangerous ones instead of mainstreaming them into homeless or worse...

"Re-evaluating how we deal with the mentally ill".....

Not sure that I endorse this yet ......

Remembering the old horror stories about how awful Insane Asylums were........

Plus the cost..........

Don't really want to go the Ray Bradbury-Martian Chronicles/Piers Anthony-Total Recall route............Dangerous Mentally ill are killed....

Though Eskimos have had to do that at times...*

Can't have a mad woman in the house/igloo when it is 40 below outside as in one incident I remember reading about...........

Might be better to just distribute free marijuana to them........

Problem would be that if it were free, declared insanity would greatly increase

And we might have to also distribute lots of free munchies.......

Cannot protect against all risks and evils all of the time...

Fighting Entropy and the Law of the Conservation of Evil.........

*And what would happen in Space where a madman or mad woman could destroy a ship in vacuum or colony on a hostile world like the Moon or Mars.......
If possible exiled back to Earth......
Hey maybe that's how this madhouse world got started ....... Spacers exiling their mentally ill here rather than kill them

[Endovelico]

Croc, no message, no gun law will stop this, Obama cannot stop this, Schumer cannot stop this, only can stop it are armed Americans gunning these people down. That's it.

This is called "copycat crime", way to stop copycat is to ignore or gun down in a hail of lead. Then they stop.

If I remember well the "hail of lead" strategy was used in Vietnam with great success... Of course the US failed then to use nuclear weapons, so you may argue that the "hail of lead" was faulty from the start... By the way, is there a nuclear weapon designed to destroy single individuals, preferably before they start shooting children?...

[Simple Minded]

So apparently gun control now = weed control now = cell phone control. And on the other side we have mourning for gun victims = hypocrisy for not mourning Pakistani drone victims.

Pater Deo. This stuff really does bring the froth and foam from people's mouths.

Substitute keyboad for mouth in that last sentence, and I'm with ya.... brother...

[Simple Minded]

And, good lord, looking at the death rates from distracted drivers on their cell phones just now... FFS...


Let's invade Cellphonistan.

Here in SimpleMindedStan, the only people who are allowed to own cell phones are people who are employed. While the apparent cruelty rate is one step above the Inquisition, it seems to have cut the murder rate, accident rate, walking out in front of a moving car rate, and the getting killed on a train tressle rate to zero.

Luckily, none of us know how to use a smartphone.....

[Enki]

The Secret History of Guns

Republicans in California eagerly supported increased gun control. Governor Reagan told reporters that afternoon that he saw “no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” He called guns a “ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.” In a later press conference, Reagan said he didn’t “know of any sportsman who leaves his home with a gun to go out into the field to hunt or for target shooting who carries that gun loaded.” The Mulford Act, he said, “would work no hardship on the honest citizen.”

Wow, other than healthcare is there anything Obama is not to the right of Reagan on?

[monster_gardener]

The Secret History of Guns

Republicans in California eagerly supported increased gun control. Governor Reagan told reporters that afternoon that he saw “no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” He called guns a “ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.” In a later press conference, Reagan said he didn’t “know of any sportsman who leaves his home with a gun to go out into the field to hunt or for target shooting who carries that gun loaded.” The Mulford Act, he said, “would work no hardship on the honest citizen.”

Wow, other than healthcare is there anything Obama is not to the right of Reagan on?

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Tinker.

Quite right that RayGun oops I mean Reagan was Wrong about that then.........

Also IMVHO how he handled the PATCO strike.......

Also should be remembered that it was the Ole' Pink Panther oops I mean old Black Panthers who were Righteous on the Right to Bear Arms and Arm Bears back then even in opposition to the NRA........

Though that has changed especially with that French guy La Pierre in charge..........

gi1hIhl3trY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi1hIhl3trY