The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Doc
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The President making the Tea party* look wise

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*Slate couldn't bring them selves to say "Tea Party" so I did

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... steps.html
It Gets Better

The president always had a tough time selling Obamacare. Now his weak assurances are making Republicans look wise beyond their years.
By John Dickerson
President Barack Obama in Brooklyn, N.Y. on Oct. 25, 2013. When healthcare.gov launched with the fanfare and success of a North Korean missile, the president insisted that Obamacare was more than a website.

Photo by Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images

During the public debate over health care in 2009 and 2010, no matter how tightly you may have shut your door, there was one piece of information it was impossible to avoid: the president's promise that if you liked your doctor and your health care plan you would be able to keep it. So it was a surprise to many people to get a letter like the one Independence Blue Cross sent its customers weeks ago. It said that as a result of the Affordable Care Act, "your current plan will be discontinued effective January 1, 2014, and you will need to select a new plan by the end of December to avoid any interruption in coverage."
John Dickerson John Dickerson

John Dickerson is Slate's chief political correspondent and author of On Her Trail. Read his series on the presidency and on risk. Follow him on Twitter.

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That wasn't what the president promised. But wait, the president can explain. It's not what we think. People won’t have the same insurance—they will have better insurance, administration officials assure. That's not the way some of the people receiving these letters see it. The president's original promise was so ironclad and repeated so often that any explanation now sounds like dissembling.

When healthcare.gov launched with the fanfare and success of a North Korean missile, the president insisted that Obamacare was more than a website. The website might be a mess, but the underlying product was sound. Now, it's Republicans who are using this exact phrase. Like the president, GOP leaders want people to focus on the larger law. You can fix a website, they say, but you can't improve the law.

What started as a website debacle is growing into a relitigation of the underlying operation. The Affordable Care Act passed with cracks and inconsistencies that are now re-emerging in the context of the website's bad launch. In some cases that simply gives Republicans new lines of attack. In others, like this argument over keeping your old health care, the failure of the site is weakening the administration's ability to engage in those old debates.

The matter at issue here only affects the 5 percent of the population that buys health care in the individual market, compared to the 80 percent who get health care through their companies. The president's press secretary, Jay Carney, pointed this out several times in his daily briefing Tuesday to put the controversy in perspective. “You would think in some of the coverage over the last several days we were talking about 75 percent,” he said. Fair enough, but the president's claim about keeping coverage was always about more than a sliver of people signing up for Obamacare which is why it has the ability to resonate beyond the audience directly affected by it.

The president's original promise was so ironclad and repeated so often that any explanation now sounds like dissembling.

Let's go back in time. During the debate over the law, the president had a difficult balancing act. He had to argue that the status quo in health care was a disaster while at the same time not threatening the status quo for those people who were happy with their health care or who feared it would get worse under his changes. A CBS poll at the time showed that people were quite afraid that whatever the president did, it would hurt their plans. Sixty-nine percent worried that the ACA would affect the quality of their care. Almost three-quarters thought it would limit their access. There was a lot of pressure on the president to send the message that nothing would change.

In the summer of 2009, the president began to tailor his message to assuage the fears of these very people. If you liked what you had, it wasn’t going to change. That was a broad and simplified claim and the press called him on it. The president could never make that promise. He didn't have the power to keep insurance companies from changing their policies in response to the law. Nevertheless, the president continued to make the claim in the desperate attempt to sell his unpopular plan.

This was a time bomb embedded in the legislation. It might have been mitigated if the website had worked. If it had been humming as administration officials so fervently hoped, there would be no broader context for debates about whether the president is living up to his promises. And in this specific instance, the flourishing of the site might have offered loads of examples of people in that individual market whose plans had only changed for the better. Of course, that’s not what happened.

The president's message about his signature law has always been: It gets better, I promise. That was always an uphill battle. The benefits of the law were strung out over time, making it harder for people to recognize a payoff. "Trust me" claims clash with people's mistrust of politicians and government programs.

When the website doesn't work and the promises of 2009 and 2010 are revised, questions of credibility infect everything the administration says. This can lead to a death spiral as administration officials make bold assertions to distract from the current challenges. White House senior adviser Valerie Jarrett tweeted Monday night: "FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans." Of course the insurance companies wouldn't have had to change plans if it hadn’t been for Obamacare. This is spinning—which is to be expected from a president's defender—but its legalistic dissembling seems particularly weak in light of the president's initial promises. (It isn’t the only time the administration has claimed a FACT recently about health care that isn't one).

For congressional Republicans, these credibility challenges help obscure their recent flirtation with utter collapse. It's not just that Republicans benefit when the president’s signature legislation falters. This debate over his initial claim lends credibility to their longstanding opposition to the law. House Speaker John Boehner's office quickly provided reporters with a quotation from the GOP weekly radio address from September 2009, delivered by Rep. Tom Price: “On the stump, the president regularly tells Americans that ‘if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.’ But if you read the bill, that just isn’t so. For starters, within five years, every health care plan will have to meet a new federal definition for coverage—one that your current plan might not match, even if you like it.” A key critique of the Republican Party's recent attempt to defund Obamacare was that it was a strategy born of limited vision. They couldn’t see that it was doomed to fail spectacularly. Four years ago, with the Affordable Care Act, they saw this moment coming.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Hoosiernorm
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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My families insurance plan changes every year. Either the deductible changes or the fees change. I get a new card every year with my new policy number on it so that the medical center or the pharmacy can figure out how much I owe them when I need to see a physician or have to get medicine. If this is considered wisdom that they figured out that the policies would change then they are absolutely out of ideas and lacking vision and capacity.

Who here as the same insurance they had last year without any changes in price, services, deductibles, or coverages? Is it the same plan you had the year before that? How often does your policy change?
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoosiernorm wrote:My families insurance plan changes every year. Either the deductible changes or the fees change. I get a new card every year with my new policy number on it so that the medical center or the pharmacy can figure out how much I owe them when I need to see a physician or have to get medicine. If this is considered wisdom that they figured out that the policies would change then they are absolutely out of ideas and lacking vision and capacity.

Who here as the same insurance they had last year without any changes in price, services, deductibles, or coverages? Is it the same plan you had the year before that? How often does your policy change?
"If you like the health insurance policy you have then you can keep it PERIOD"

No "Unless they raise the cost by $5 dollars then soory you loose it. If Obamacare never happened millions would not be losing their insurance today. PERIOD
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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The Tea Party is right about everything (that matters). When you're right about everything it means you're smart.
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Hoosiernorm
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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How many times has your policy changed in the past 5 years?
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoosiernorm wrote:How many times has your policy changed in the past 5 years?
Obama doesn't have a policy. He plays golf. Sebelius doesn't have Obamacare She claims (erroneously) that it is illegal for her to have it.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Are you incapable of answering the question or do you not know the answer?
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoosiernorm wrote:Are you incapable of answering the question or do you not know the answer?
I didn't realize the question was aimed at me. Six times as of Dec 15th It will be canceled at the end of next year It would have been canceled in January but my insurance agent gave me a heads up so we changed the renewal date
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Hoosiernorm
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Doc wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Are you incapable of answering the question or do you not know the answer?
I didn't realize the question was aimed at me. Six times as of Dec 15th It will be canceled at the end of next year It would have been canceled in January but my insurance agent gave me a heads up so we changed the renewal date
Most policies expire every year but and are changed to a new policy. I have never known anyone whose policy didn't expire every year and was replaced by a new policy. I'm not sure why this proves the POTUS lied. Did you think that your policy wouldn't change significantly
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoosiernorm wrote:
Doc wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Are you incapable of answering the question or do you not know the answer?
I didn't realize the question was aimed at me. Six times as of Dec 15th It will be canceled at the end of next year It would have been canceled in January but my insurance agent gave me a heads up so we changed the renewal date
Most policies expire every year but and are changed to a new policy. I have never known anyone whose policy didn't expire every year and was replaced by a new policy. I'm not sure why this proves the POTUS lied. Did you think that your policy wouldn't change significantly
Are you seriously making the argument that you seem to be? Really? Because if so, then you might as well say that language is disconnected from meaning. It's just abstract sounds, like a kind of music.

The SSOS said, "If you like your health plan you can keep your health plan" ...You're saying he meant that you can keep it, but you can't actually use it?
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoos is a liberal now, so put everthing through that IQ filter.
Censorship isn't necessary
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

Post by Demon of Undoing »

On the issue of keeping your policy, there was definitely a " bait and switch", or as we used to call it back home, " a goddamn lie".

Used to be able to tar and feather, too. Sometimes, traditions need to be kept.
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Hoosiernorm wrote:
Doc wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:Are you incapable of answering the question or do you not know the answer?
I didn't realize the question was aimed at me. Six times as of Dec 15th It will be canceled at the end of next year It would have been canceled in January but my insurance agent gave me a heads up so we changed the renewal date
Most policies expire every year but and are changed to a new policy. I have never known anyone whose policy didn't expire every year and was replaced by a new policy. I'm not sure why this proves the POTUS lied. Did you think that your policy wouldn't change significantly
I will tell you why Obama lied in case you missed where I posted this before. In 2010 right after Obamacare was passed the Insurance companies started raising people's rates 30 to 50% Obama said he would not stand for rate increases of 30% or more. This happened when I was suppose to get a renewal notice. I didn't get one UNITED HEALTH SCAM er care told me to pay the same amount as the previous month After I got the rate increase 29.9999% A ~ $250 per month per person increase Previously the highest rate increase we EVER received was 14% Then later that year I needed rehab. United Health refused to pay supposedly because the only rehab available was in a hospital and United Health care refused to pay for Rehab n a hospital Never mind they charged the same amount as the non hospital clinic 70 miles away in the city. The person handling the insurance at the hospital told me that the real reason United did not want to pay was because under Obamacare group HMO's (Not junk insurance) of under 10 people were no longer profitable. And indeed after I contacted a lawyer and quit united Health care they paid what for what little rehab I had. I was supposed to do 12 weeks I did two. I quit because the next year they wanted to raise the rates by 47%

So should I file criminal charges against Obama for attempted Murder PERIOD? Should I file charges against Obama for price fixing PERIOD? Or should I just call Obama the pathological SOS liar that he is?

United healthcare up until Obamacare was passed was all against it. There was no chance the Dems in congress were going to pass Obamacare without the Big health Insurance going along.

So How did Obama get them to go along? He gave them a no strings attach five hundred billion dollars Half a trillion with a "T" and promised them record profits that if they liked they could keep them PERIOD.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzn ... reholders/
I understood belatedly that there would have been no Affordable Care Act of 2010 if the White House had not given into demands from the giant profit-making health insurance companies. Had he not done so, I am being assured that there would have been no bill passed, a priority goal that Obama promised in his 2008 Presidential campaign. How the profits have risen so impressively requires further investigation as the bill is meant to limit the profits earned to 20% of the revenues.
When the problems came up with the website and people started getting cancellation notices did Obama come out and say that no one was going to go without health insurance? NO He came out and talked about what a great product it is one single time. Then he went to Boston and said it was all the Big Health care companies and the Republicans fault it wasn't working.

BUT Right before he went to Boston he had a meeting with all the Health are companies to smooth thing over with them. Don't you think it is strange that Obama is blaming them for the problems but they are not saying one single word in their own defense?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10 ... -insurers/

Obama spent more time trying to soothe the Big Insurance companies than he as done addresses the American people over Obamacare.

THE FIX IS IN Obama bought their silence with profits that have risen 60% and stock values up between 100 and 200% While an Obama adim estimated 95 million Americans are going to lose the health care insurance plans they liked. And you want to defend this lying bum?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzn ... reholders/
ObamaCare Enriches Only The Health Insurance Giants and Their Shareholders

The 50 to 75% of the 14 million self insured are just the ip of the iceberg Come Jan 2015 when the the employer mandates kick in and 10s of millions more will lose their insurance. Sure they will get new insurance MAYBE Insurance that will make sure that all men are covered for PREGNANCY. But members of teh Obama admin won't lose their plan Sebelius said it was "Illegal" for her to go on Obamacare. :roll:


http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news ... rance?lite
Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance


LIke I said the fix is in are you incapable of understanding that?

For those here that don't understand "The fix is in" it means a crooked corrupt game.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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If you look at liberalism as a belief system intent on destroying human lives everything makes sense.
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Re: The President making the Tea party* look wise

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Mr. Perfect wrote:If you look at liberalism as a belief system intent on destroying human lives everything makes sense.
Except in cases like European aristocracy er I mean socialist leadership. Their lives are never destroyed. Even if they are pedophiles.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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