Two narratives

[Typhoon]

Fred | A Tale of Two Tales

As I listen to American fury against uncoöperative Afghans, to Congress furiously denouncing Pakistan for anemic aid in conducting the current wars, I sometimes wonder whether the US is playing with a full deck. The anger arises I suspect becaause the US and the rest of the world work from very different premises. They believe in, as we say, distinct narratives.

The American narrative holds that the United States is a light to the world, the freest, richest, most productive country the world has ever seen, the greatest military power, the most prolific producer of technlogy and of Nobel laureates. America is a force for freedom and democacry, a champion of human rights, a land of universal opportunity with liberty and justice for all. The Unites States is what all countries could be if they accepted our values. History supports this view. In a raw ccontinent, American energy and free enterprise carved a paradise from a wilderness.

This narrative, the belief that America is special among nations, favored by God, pervades the culture. Those old enough will remember that Superman fought for “truth, justice, and the American way.”

Quite different is what might be called the World Narrative, held around the globe with differeing intensities and emphases. It holds the US to be an endlessly aggressive military power that is out of control, hypocritically speaking of democracy and freedom while supporting dictators and overthrowing elected governments. America is arrogant, crassly mateiralistic, crime-ridden, vulgar, racially unjust, the world's only avowed practicioner of torture, economically explotative, imperialistic and intolerant of other cultures.

The military form of the World Narrative holds that America savagely attacks weaker nations in pursuit of oil and empire, that it uses overwhelming technological superiority to butcher peasants armed with rifles, that atrocites are routine, that it employs Stalinist nocturnal raids to terrorize populations, that killing of children is common.

[Ibrahim]

How boring would it be to say that there is truth to both narratives?


Do Americans even see themselves as the "good guys" anymore? The sense I get is that America has given up on that and is just going with "we're tough don't genuflect with us" now instead. To put it in arch-American terms, the US is no longer Hulk Hogan (80's version), its now Steve Austin.

[Azrael]

How boring would it be to say that there is truth to both narratives?

The boring truth.

Do Americans even see themselves as the "good guys" anymore?

Less and less so as time goes by.

The sense I get is that America has given up on that and is just going with "we're tough don't genuflect with us" now instead.

Pretty much.

To put it in arch-American terms, the US is no longer Hulk Hogan (80's version), its now Steve Austin.

Clever.

Or it's the Undertaker.

[Mr. Perfect]

Certainly the writer is in error, the left began despising America many decades ago, the right is as GI Joe as it's ever been, and of course the middle blows with the breeze.

America felt much worse after Vietnam than it does now. And of course after Vietnam we eventually got R Reagan, and reached one of our Pro-American peaks.

The left just likes power, that means the power to kill brown people of course, and the real genuine outrage the left had over Bush during the wars at that time was more to do with the jealousy of not having that power at the time. The wars are the same, the outrage is gone, and the left of course now is very happy to exercise their power. Very happy. But it is nothing to do with American pride.

[Azrael]

Certainly the writer is in error, the left began despising America many decades ago,

By "despising America" do you mean trying to encourage America to live by the ideals it claims to hold dear?

the right is as GI Joe as it's ever been,

Not true. GI Joe never tortured anyone, peed on anyone, raped anyone, etc.

and of course the middle blows with the breeze.

America felt much worse after Vietnam than it does now. And of course after Vietnam we eventually got R Reagan, and reached one of our Pro-American peaks.

And then Reagan ruined it by selling weapons to Iranian terrorists and smuggling drugs in order to fund terrorists in Latin America.

The left just likes power,

Unlike daddy and little Bush, John Poindexter, Dick Cheney, Newt Gingrich, etc.

that means the power to kill brown people of course,

It's really sweet of you to stick up for Osama Bin Laden like that. You must have a soft spot in your heart for him, because I remember you didn't mind when Bush let him escape at Tora Bora. You must have been really crushed when that horrible man Obama killed him. How horrible to kill a brown man like that.

and the real genuine outrage the left had over Bush during the wars at that time was more to do with the jealousy of not having that power at the time.

And of course it had nothing to do with the corruption, incompetence and reactionary policies of the Bush administration.

The wars are the same,

Actually, we're no longer in Iraq. I guess you don't follow the news very closely.

And Libya was a different war. A war against someone who has actually attacked innocent Americans, unlike Saddam Hussein.

the outrage is gone,

You're right. The Left is totally cool with everything. It's not like there's an Occupy Movement or anything.

and the left of course now is very happy to exercise their power. Very happy. But it is nothing to do with American pride.

So I guess anyone who was against attacking Iraq lacks "American pride". And the Right likes to accuse the "left" (anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh) of slander.

[Mr. Perfect]

By "despising America" do you mean trying to encourage America to live by the ideals it claims to hold dear?

No, I mean by proclaiming the US either brought 9-11 on itself, or planned it as an inside job. Hopefully one day the left will pick a position on that.

Not true. GI Joe never tortured anyone, peed on anyone, raped anyone, etc.

See my point 1.

And then Reagan ruined it by selling weapons to Iranian terrorists and smuggling drugs in order to fund terrorists in Latin America.

Actually that will now make Reagan a leftist hero, fighting against the war on drugs and negotiating with terrorists as Obama dreams of. Now everyone has something to be happy about re Ronald Reagan. Everyone.

Unlike daddy and little Bush, John Poindexter, Dick Cheney, Newt Gingrich, etc.

I'm glad that you now equate the left with these people. Very glad.

It's really sweet of you to stick up for Osama Bin Laden like that. You must have a soft spot in your heart for him, because I remember you didn't mind when Bush let him escape at Tora Bora. You must have been really crushed when that horrible man Obama killed him. How horrible to kill a brown man like that.

Well blame Leon Panetta Az. Obama was not particularly interested in that, if you recall Panetta had to drag POTUS off a golf course for that particular op.

And of course it had nothing to do with the corruption, incompetence and reactionary policies of the Bush administration.

Of course. The left fully funded and continued those policies after condemning them as criminal wasteful and evil. The left after the 2006 election to the present continued said corrupt, incompetent and reactionary policies without alteration.

Actually, we're no longer in Iraq. I guess you don't follow the news very closely.

Following the Bush/McCain withdrawal timeline, and only after the Iraqis insisted, against the wishes of Panetta and Obama. Against their wishes.

And Libya was a different war. A war against someone who has actually attacked innocent Americans, unlike Saddam Hussein.

Yeah. What a terrible enemy of America that Qaddafi was. Imagine the blood on those hands.

You're right. The Left is totally cool with everything. It's not like there's an Occupy Movement or anything.

Whoah now, you need to back that up. Tinker says the fleabaggers have nothing to do with the left. You will have to argue with him about that. He will argue with you passionately about that point. You couldn't be more wrong according to him.

So I guess anyone who was against attacking Iraq lacks "American pride". And the Right likes to accuse the "left" (anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh) of slander.

[/quote][/quote]
I don't know Az, find me a Democrat who speaks in terms of American pride, the greatness of America in terms of our foreign policy adventures. I find a bunch of apologies myself.