Romney vs. Obama

[Parodite]

Now, while this is an interesting thing to chat about, it has no bearing on the election at all. Americans don't care about the embassy attack any more than they care about the thousands to broken-toy veterans who kill themselves, or the thousands of murdered civilians or anything else that actually results from US foreign policy. It's just another lever for political exploitation. One candidate scores his point in the debate, then everybody forgets about it again. The immorality and inefficacy of US defense policy is a non-issue for Americans.

Sadly, I agree.

Yup. I have told I am cynical for caring about such things.

I don't think it is something unique for Americans to be numbed by a continuous exposure to violent images where people kill and are killed. As the soldier may feel nausea after the first kill but in numbed mode can kill more mechanically and with ease.

As for the bulk of Americans or any person with TV and internet, it may also be a matter of self-protection to shut your empathic system down during overload. When the theaters of blood on top of that are far away, what remains is cheerleading your elect president and enjoy the win as if it were a beauty contest.

[Mr. Perfect]

Now, while this is an interesting thing to chat about, it has no bearing on the election at all. Americans don't care about the embassy attack any more than they care about the thousands to broken-toy veterans who kill themselves, or the thousands of murdered civilians or anything else that actually results from US foreign policy. It's just another lever for political exploitation. One candidate scores his point in the debate, then everybody forgets about it again. The immorality and inefficacy of US defense policy is a non-issue for Americans.

Sadly, I agree.

Yup. I have told I am cynical for caring about such things.

You don't care about this at all. You were silent as the Democrats continued funding Iraq after 2006. You were silent when Obama extend Iraq. You were silent when Obama surged and extended in AFG. You were silent when Obama intervened in Libya. You were silent when Obama pushed down the gas on on 10,000 ninjas drone policy. You've always lied about all of this stuff. Blood soaked lies.

[Enki]

You need to interface with reality before it really costs you.

Here's the problem. I already accepted that Obama is working counter to my interests. But you are not offering up anything that's better. You are offering someone who is slightly worse by every metric, who will increase the deficit, increase the amount of war we're in, etc... So why does what you say matter? You want Obama+.

[Mr. Perfect]

Only according to left wing media products. But even they are schizophrenic, one product tells you Ryan is going to slash spending and stall the recovery, another tells you he'll blow out the debt (even though that's perfectly fine when Democrats do it), so admittedly it's hard to make sense out of nonsense, but some of use have to study reality.

And I have a freedom agenda which is well established to be counter to your agenda (freedoms being shackles and so forth) so I'm not trying to persuade you and yours, I'm trying to defeat you. Likewise I am trying to defeat America's enemies abroad, and Obama ain't working. Real war has a much better chance. And we're going to get it one way or the other, so I say let's not do it in the worst way possible.

[Enki]

Only according to left wing media products. But even they are schizophrenic, one product tells you Ryan is going to slash spending and stall the recovery, another tells you he'll blow out the debt (even though that's perfectly fine when Democrats do it), so admittedly it's hard to make sense out of nonsense, but some of use have to study reality.

Ok, Mitt Romney has failed to explain it. How do you cut taxes for everyone, raise the budget significantly, and reduce the deficit?

And I have a freedom agenda which is well established to be counter to your agenda (freedoms being shackles and so forth) so I'm not trying to persuade you and yours, I'm trying to defeat you. Likewise I am trying to defeat America's enemies abroad, and Obama ain't working. Real war has a much better chance. And we're going to get it one way or the other, so I say let's not do it in the worst way possible.

You don't have a freedom agenda, you have a partisan agenda. You agree with whatever Rush Limbaugh believes. You claim to come by it through your own logic and whatever, but you are completely and totally in line with him and the Fox News agenda. You cannot from one side of your mouth talk about slaughtering millions of people and then claim you have a freedom agenda. it doesn't work like that.

[Mr. Perfect]

Ok, Mitt Romney has failed to explain it. How do you cut taxes for everyone, raise the budget significantly, and reduce the deficit?

I think the left wing media product has failed to explain it all. The spending cuts outweigh the tax cuts in deficit reduction, and if the tax cuts help the economy grow they will help reduce the deficit even further.

You've a freedom agenda, you have a partisan agenda. You agree with whatever Rush Limbaugh believes. You claim to come by it through your own logic and whatever, but you are completely and totally in line with him and the Fox News agenda. You cannot from one side of your mouth talk about slaughtering millions of people and then claim you have a freedom agenda. it doesn't work like that.

I'm for the Milo Doctine, I'm for entitlement privatization, I'm for public schooling privatization, I'm for eliminating the IRS, eliminating the FED, eliminating the TSA, BATF,and half of all federal agencies at random, then half that's left, then half that's left and so on, I'm for all the Bill of Rights, I'm for savage tax and spending cuts, outrageous property rights and of course I can go on for days. If anything should be mandated by the government it is participation in the stock market.

I don't really care who that aligns me with. I have no problem with partisanship. Neither do you.

Slaughtering millions of people has preserved freedom before, and if that's what it takes we'll do it again. Heck, we're gonna slaughter millions regardless of who wins, freedom or not so I'm not sure what the point is on that.

[Skin Job]

Slaughtering millions of people has preserved freedom before, and if that's what it takes we'll do it again. Heck, we're gonna slaughter millions regardless of who wins, freedom or not so I'm not sure what the point is on that.

So cavalier with the lives of the other. To me, this evil aspect of your philosophy overshadows all the good. It's a terrible shame you have been duped into thinking the US is under existential threat from without. Our fear is what will destroy US, not some tinpot Persian loudmouth.

[Zack Morris]

He wants to eliminate the TSA but is concerned about another 9/11 happening. Ooookay.

[Mr. Perfect]

You're fighting the last war Zack.

[Typhoon]

Slaughtering millions of people has preserved freedom before, and if that's what it takes we'll do it again. Heck, we're gonna slaughter millions regardless of who wins, freedom or not so I'm not sure what the point is on that.

So cavalier with the lives of the other. To me, this evil aspect of your philosophy overshadows all the good. It's a terrible shame you have been duped into thinking the US is under existential threat from without. Our fear is what will destroy US, not some tinpot Persian loudmouth.

The impression is that the far away ME lives completely rent free in large parts of the collective American mind.

The land of the free, home of the brave appears to be morphing into the land of the self enslaved, home of the permanently paranoid.

What has prevented a repeat of the 20th centuries WWI and WWII mass slaughterhouses is the existence of nuclear weapons [and MAD in the case of the former and current major powers].

Without condoning it, it's understandable why nations are so eager to acquire nuclear weapons.

[Typhoon]

You're fighting the last war Zack.

Breaking news for Mr. P. The American Civil War is over

[Mr. Perfect]

Slaughtering millions of people has preserved freedom before, and if that's what it takes we'll do it again. Heck, we're gonna slaughter millions regardless of who wins, freedom or not so I'm not sure what the point is on that.

So cavalier with the lives of the other. To me, this evil aspect of your philosophy overshadows all the good. It's a terrible shame you have been duped into thinking the US is under existential threat from without. Our fear is what will destroy US, not some tinpot Persian loudmouth.

The impression is that the far away ME lives completely rent free in large parts of the collective American mind.

The land of the free, home of the brave appears to be morphing into the land of the self enslaved, home of the permanently paranoid.

What has prevented a repeat of the 20th centuries WWI and WWII mass slaughterhouses is the existence of nuclear weapons [and MAD in the case of the former and current major powers].

Without condoning it, it's understandable why nations are so eager to acquire nuclear weapons.

Well 4 years of Obama, I'm not sure why anyone is surprised with this outcome. It was written into his DNA.

[Mr. Perfect]

You're fighting the last war Zack.

Breaking news for Mr. P. The American Civil War is over

It does seem like many of you are back there, unfortunately, in the meantime someone needs to deal with the expanded terror threats under Obama, with an increase in safe havens and anti-American sentiment. Heck they just pulled off a completely successful terrorist attack and they didn't even need bin laden.

[Parodite]

Hey Mr. P. You have some serious allies, at least one.

[Mr. Perfect]

Poor guy, the FED is blowing itself up on it's own.

[Skin Job]

Slaughtering millions of people has preserved freedom before, and if that's what it takes we'll do it again. Heck, we're gonna slaughter millions regardless of who wins, freedom or not so I'm not sure what the point is on that.

So cavalier with the lives of the other. To me, this evil aspect of your philosophy overshadows all the good. It's a terrible shame you have been duped into thinking the US is under existential threat from without. Our fear is what will destroy US, not some tinpot Persian loudmouth.

The impression is that the far away ME lives completely rent free in large parts of the collective American mind.

The land of the free, home of the brave appears to be morphing into the land of the self enslaved, home of the permanently paranoid.

What has prevented a repeat of the 20th centuries WWI and WWII mass slaughterhouses is the existence of nuclear weapons [and MAD in the case of the former and current major powers].

Without condoning it, it's understandable why nations are so eager to acquire nuclear weapons.

The willingness of Mr. P and other American warmongers to turn swaths of the Middle East into "glass" makes Iran's desire for a nuclear deterrent far more understandable, indeed it is probably one of Iran's reasons for seeking such. That's not to say I excuse the hateful rhetoric emanating from Iran''s foul mouthpiece, Ahmadinejad. If A. is to be believed, the country that may be facing an existential threat is Israel. Just as the US supported Britain in the lead up to her entry into WWII, so should the US continue to support Israel, but should not be whipping up support for a preemptive attack that in no way advances US interests, and rather wastes taxpayer dollars, and drives up the price of oil.

[Mr. Perfect]

The willingness of Mr. P and other American warmongers to turn swaths of the Middle East into "glass" makes Iran's desire for a nuclear deterrent far more understandable, indeed it is probably one of Iran's reasons for seeking such. That's not to say I excuse the hateful rhetoric emanating from Iran''s foul mouthpiece, Ahmadinejad. If A. is to be believed, the country that may be facing an existential threat is Israel. Just as the US supported Britain in the lead up to her entry into WWII, so should the US continue to support Israel, but should not be whipping up support for a preemptive attack that in no way advances US interests, and rather wastes taxpayer dollars, and drives up the price of oil.

I know, so many nuclear attacks since WWII, who wouldn't be afraid of those wild Americans running off half cocked.

I tell you what, perhaps you could move to Tel Aviv and then let me know about existential threats to Israel and what our pre-emption options are.

[Parodite]

Poor guy, the FED is blowing itself up on it's own.

Yea it is a silverlining to any problem as it just resolves itself as time passes by. Tomorrow we'll be all one step closer.

[Skin Job]

The willingness of Mr. P and other American warmongers to turn swaths of the Middle East into "glass" makes Iran's desire for a nuclear deterrent far more understandable, indeed it is probably one of Iran's reasons for seeking such. That's not to say I excuse the hateful rhetoric emanating from Iran''s foul mouthpiece, Ahmadinejad. If A. is to be believed, the country that may be facing an existential threat is Israel. Just as the US supported Britain in the lead up to her entry into WWII, so should the US continue to support Israel, but should not be whipping up support for a preemptive attack that in no way advances US interests, and rather wastes taxpayer dollars, and drives up the price of oil.

I know, so many nuclear attacks since WWII, who wouldn't be afraid of those wild Americans running off half cocked.

I tell you what, perhaps you could move to Tel Aviv and then let me know about existential threats to Israel.

I don't see anything wrong about admitting my position might possibly be different if I lived in Te Aviv, but I can't speak to that hypothetical any more than you could if I invited you to live in Teheran. Both are interesting things to contemplate, but not relevant to our discussion.

It's my understanding that citizens of Israel are not of one mind on this issue, seems just living there does not guarantee abandonment of reason.

[Mr. Perfect]

I don't see anything wrong about admitting my position might possibly be different if I lived in Te Aviv, but I can't speak to that hypothetical any more than you could if I invited you to live in Teheran. Both are interesting things to contemplate, but not relevant to our discussion.

They certainly are relevant, it helps one be less cavalier about lives.

It's my understanding that citizens of Israel are not of one mind on this issue, seems just living there does not guarantee abandonment of reason.

People that live in Tehran staged mass protests against Ahmedinidini a few years ago if that tells you anything.

Obama made a peace offering and Ajad rejected it. What do you call people who reject peace offerings.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

With the whole Ayn Rand thing being brought up this election, Republicans have shifted back to relying on a moral argument against wealth confiscation. I have been thinking about this, and as useful as the argument is within the group for promoting a sense of self-righteousness in your cause, I don't think it's right to focus on this in the national debate. At the end of the day, a party telling people that they are oppressed victims and offering, if elected, to take the ill-gotten gains of more successful people and redistribute them more equitably is always going to be more appealing to the drooling masses than a party telling those mouth-breathers that they have no moral right to take what is not theirs.

The Republicans are much better off not bothering to compete with the Democrats over what is fair or unfair with regard to taxation. They need to simply stick to the story that, fair or not, the economic growth created when wealth is kept in private hands and out of the inefficient control of government is better for the society top to bottom. They should ridicule the Democrats' insistence that an inefficient and destructive policy be enacted just because it suits their idea of what's "fair". What matters is what works, and what creates the best outcomes for the most people.

Of course this is totally disingenuous, since in the age of global capital that has emerged over the last three decades, extra money given back in tax cuts is not re-worked through the overbuilt US economy, but invested overseas, allowing the holders of capital to benefit while the typical American worker faces even greater downward pressure on his wages from the increased competition from overseas.

[Skin Job]

I don't see anything wrong about admitting my position might possibly be different if I lived in Te Aviv, but I can't speak to that hypothetical any more than you could if I invited you to live in Teheran. Both are interesting things to contemplate, but not relevant to our discussion.

They certainly are relevant, it helps one be less cavalier about lives.

You have no credibility in regards to how cavalier you think I am. More clearly stated, this is strictly an ad hominem attempt at rebuttal, and should be disregarded by readers as a ploy to avoid the substance of the issue.

It's my understanding that citizens of Israel are not of one mind on this issue, seems just living there does not guarantee abandonment of reason.

People that live in Tehran staged mass protests against Ahmedinidini a few years ago if that tells you anything.

It tells me that the Iranian people are not monolithic, either. We seem to have established that some people retain the ability to think for themselves regardless of location. Odd that you bring these Iranians who apparently agree with you into the discussion. If your wish comes true, many of them will die.

Obama made a peace offering and Ajad rejected it. What do you call people who reject peace offerings.

What do you call people who refuse to pay Mafia protection money? Probably principled and dead about covers it.

[Ibrahim]

The willingness of and other American warmongers to turn swaths of the Middle East into "glass" makes Iran's desire for a nuclear deterrent far more understandable, indeed it is probably one of Iran's reasons for seeking such. That's not to say I excuse the hateful rhetoric emanating from Iran''s foul mouthpiece, Ahmadinejad. If A. is to be believed, the country that may be facing an existential threat is Israel. Just as the US supported Britain in the lead up to her entry into WWII, so should the US continue to support Israel, but should not be whipping up support for a preemptive attack that in no way advances US interests, and rather wastes taxpayer dollars, and drives up the price of oil.

I've heard all kinds of Assyrian-level rhetoric about "glassing" countries and wiping out Muslims since 9/11, and it remains fringe nonsense from truly stupid people who don't matter. If there was ever any real weight behind it it would have been right after 9/11, and there wasn't then so there certainly isn't now. Americans prefer their mass-murder in small doses, not all at once. Easier to ignore.

That said, the deterrent value of a nuke is undeniable. It's not what it once was (some drone strikes and SF meddling in Pakistan, for example) but you won't get the Iraq/Afghan/Lebanon treatment either. As Israel is becoming increasingly bellicose, it only reinforces Iranian arguments for having a bomb (as couched in anti-Semitic or other crazy talk as they may be.

THAT said, neither Obama or Romney are going to do anything about it. This is North Korea in Farsi.

[Ibrahim]

The Republicans are much better off not bothering to compete with the Democrats over what is fair or unfair with regard to taxation. They need to simply stick to the story that, fair or not, the economic growth created when wealth is kept in private hands and out of the inefficient control of government is better for the society top to bottom. They should ridicule the Democrats' insistence that an inefficient and destructive policy be enacted just because it suits their idea of what's "fair". What matters is what works, and what creates the best outcomes for the most people.

This is a good line for the party to take, unfortunately its demonstrably untrue. Minimal regulation and reducing taxation/public spending might make some number of overall wealth in America go up, but it does so at the expense of the majority of the population. So not only is the Randian future of a neo-Dickensian America immoral, its also against even the raw economic self-interest of most Americans.

[Mr. Perfect]

Under Obama and STPN the gap between rich white people and poor black people has set record levels, and we have leftists concerned GOP policy will do what they have already done.

We are in Kafka land now. We are in Dickensian land now. Leftism has already created Dickens. We are living it.