Viva Italia!

[Typhoon]

Stereotype much?

Perhaps it's just me, but I think that there is a big difference between criticizing someone in the press and sending them to forced labour camps and gas chambers.

You missed the point of my post. When Germans placed signs stating that work makes us free at the gates of concentration camps, they were not being facetious. They really believe that work liberates even if it is forced labour. Anyone thinking that there is more to life than work will be considered a clown and seen as unreliable by Germans.

A good socialist like you indulging in nationalistic stereotypes?

Yet I recall that you didn't like the sweeping simplistic categorisation of Italy = S. Switzerland (Viva Padania) + North North Africa on another thread...

Well, the Second International disbanded during WW1 as it's members heeded the call of nationalism to go die in the trenches . . .

[Azrael]

This distinction between the backward "Mediterranean" south Italy and the advanced "Swiss" north Italy may be relatively recent.

Prior to the unification of Italy (basically the northern King of Sardinia conquering the rest of Italy with help from nationalist demagogues), the south didn't appear to be relatively backward. The engineering factory of Pietrarsa, south of Naples, was the largest industrial complex in Italy. The railroad linking it to Naples was the first in Italy. Naples was the largest city in Italy and one of the largest in Europe.

Most of southern Italy was controlled by the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. According to the studies of Francesco Saverio Nitti (who was the Prime Minister of Italy in 1919-1920), the kingdom had 443.3 million golden lire (about 65.7% of all the money circulating in the peninsula), and it was the richest among the other Italian states.

Industry in the south basically collapsed after unification, possibly due to the fact that the folks up north didn't like the competition. Also, the destruction of the former regime may have led to a power vacuum that led to an increase in organized crime.

Francesco Saverio Nitti was a historian and an economist and studied the reasons why south Italy did poorly after unification. He left Italy when Mussolini (a northerner) took over.

Some good references:

Francesco Saverio Nitti, Domenico De Masi, Napoli e la questione meridionale, Guida, Napoli, 2004
Francesco Saverio Nitti, L'Italia all'alba del secolo XX, Casa Editrice Nazionale Roux e Viarengo, Torino-Roma, 1901

[Typhoon]

The Italian economy is in the midst of a "credit crunch" that is causing thousands of companies to go bankrupt...

Confindustria, the business federation, said 29% of Italian firms cannot meet "operational expenses" and are starved of liquidity. A "third phase of the credit crunch" is underway that matches the shocks in 2008-2009 and again in 2011.

In a research report the group said the economy was caught in a "vicious circle" where banks are too frightened to lend, driving more companies over the edge. A thousand are going bankrupt every day.

[YMix]

The world’s oldest bank admits dodgy derivatives trades, fleeing depositors and a mysterious death caused “reputational damage”

By Naomi Rovnick — March 31, 2013

Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena (MPS), Italy’s third-largest bank and the world’s oldest, has admitted in a statement posted quietly on its website that its customer deposits have fallen by a “few billion euros.”

That was after a series of scandals rocked the more than 600-year-old institution, which included a €730 million derivatives loss it racked up from 2006 to 2009.

These transactions are at the heart of a fraud probe at the bank. Italian prosecutors are investigating whether MPS used derivatives transactions to hide losses from regulators.

Bloomberg reported in January that Deutsche Bank designed a derivative for MPS in 2008 that obscured the Italian bank’s true financial position just before it applied for a taxpayer bailout. MPS reportedly engaged in similar trades with Nomura, and Italian police recently searched the Japanese bank’s Milan office.

MPS’ troubles appear to have started in 2007, when it overpaid to buy smaller rival Antonveneta without doing any due diligence.

The bank’s former finance chief, Gianluca Baldassarri, has been jailed, accused of misleading Italian regulators over the derivatives trades.

And in a mysterious twist, MPS head of communications David Rossi was found dead at the bank’s headquarters in early March, reportedly after feeling pressured by the fraud investigation, although he was not himself a subject of the probe.

Unsurprisingly, MPS has issued terrible financial results for 2012, posting a €3.2 billion loss. largely due to bad debt provisions and losses on its derivatives trades. The bank released these results at 5.45 p.m. on Maundy Thursday, when many of its Italian depositors and shareholders would have already gone home from work to start their Easter holidays.

The MPS scandal has raised questions over the Italian government’s oversight of its financial institutions. Italy agreed to bail out Banca MPS back in June 2012. On Jan. 26 it agreed to extend another €3.9 billion to the poorly funded bank, including rolling over a €1.9 billion loan the bank took out in the middle of the financial crisis.

The affair also contributed to the chaos that is still raging over Italy’s recent general elections. MPS had deep links to Italy’s center-left Democratic Party, which had been tipped to win in the February poll, but failed to secure a majority in the Senate necessary to take control. Italy still does not have a government.

[Alexis]

Interesting text on potential impact of Beppe Grillo's 5-Star-like movements on China.
Contains also comments on that new political phenomenon, born from politically creative Italy, and on its potential impact in its home country and worldwide.

Italy over the past century was a staging ground for experiments with new political solutions that had global consequences. Fascism was born in Italy in the 1920s, although it also flourished elsewhere and caused the start of World War II. In the 1970s, the Italian pro-Soviet Communist Party supported coalition governments that included pro-American parties, showing that communism could be adapted to a democratic environment. Thus, it inspired reforms in Gorbachev's USSR some years later, something that led to the collapse of communism in Europe altogether.
One then wonders whether the new Italian political entity the "5 Star Movement", created by comedian-turned-politician Beppe Grillo, will also lead to something else - and what that could be.
(...)
If the path for future reforms is roughly clear in China, it is not clear at all in Italy, where nobody so far has been able to control the snowball effect of Grillo/the Internet on Italian politics. Nobody has challenged Grillo on his home turf, the Internet, and nobody has challenged him on his revolutionary rhetoric, either by carrying out some of the reasonable reforms he proposes (cut the huge costs of Italian politics) or by disputing some of his demagoguery (a minimum wage for "being a citizen'', a measure that could rot the core of Italian economy).
(...)
Here, there is no clear path ahead. Nobody is clear about what Grillo wants to do if he gets power; possibly he himself doesn't know. Nobody is clear about the crawling impact economic crises in Cyprus and Slovenia could have on the weak political balance in Italy and thus on the overall solidity of the euro.
This makes the situation in Italy highly critical for everybody, and yet it is hard to intervene and know what the future holds for the country while revolutionary winds grow stronger.
(...)
Chinese society is unstable as the leadership tries to show steadiness. And thus it is true, if the leadership were to split, the whole country would tremble and shake. But then again, if the leadership stays united, the mass of society will move ahead. Nothing like this is clear in Italy. Grillo could well steer Italy out of the euro and thus start a breakdown of the currency and a global financial crisis with unpredictable implications.

[Azrael]

Basta! Enough games! It's time for Rodota already.

[Endovelico]

Basta! Enough games! It's time for Rodota already.

Seconded!...

[Parodite]

What does Rodota want?

[Endovelico]

What does Rodota want?

Stefano Rodotà, an Italian leftist politician who is also professor of Civil Law at the Sapienza University of Rome. He has been elected to the Italian and European parliaments on the Radical Party and the Communist Party tickets.

He is a widely respected intellectual with a remarkable academic record. Stefano Rodotà has taught at the Universities of Macerata, Genoa and Rome, where he was professor of civil law and where he was awarded with the title of professor emeritus. He has taught in many universities in Europe, in the United States of America, in Latin America, Canada, Australia and India. It has been a visiting professor at the All Souls College in Oxford and Stanford School of Law. He has taught at the Faculty of Law of the University Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne and worked with the Collège de France. He received an honorary degree from Michel de Montaigne University of Bordeaux and the University of Macerata. He is chairman of the board of directors of the International University College of Turin. He is part of the Committee of the guarantors of the Democracy Biennial and the Nexa Center for Internet and Society of Politecnico di Torino.

[Parodite]

Thanks. Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Thanks.

Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

.

Worldwide .. the central banks and parliaments, silently, in most places already have, are introducing legislation that should a bank get in difficulty, the depositors must participate in the bailout of that bank, the depositors should get a haircut .. even Switzerland has silently already enacted such legislation, already the law

Such laws are fair, as depositors will be choosy where to deposit their money, and, banks to attract deposits must avoid (excessive) risky business .. banks in reality gambling with their depositors money and the depositors should be aware of this .. and, maybe, even have a slice of the bank's yearly profits, as they would lose their money if the bank folds .. things coming to this kind of arrangement

In Italy's case, sooner or later, the depositors will pay



.

[Doc]

.

Thanks.

Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

.

Worldwide .. the central banks and parliaments, silently, in most places already have, are introducing legislation that should a bank get in difficulty, the depositors must participate in the bailout of that bank, the depositors should get a haircut .. even Switzerland has silently already enacted such legislation, already the law

Such laws are fair, as depositors will be choosy where to deposit their money, and, banks to attract deposits must avoid (excessive) risky business .. banks in reality gambling with their depositors money and the depositors should be aware of this .. and, maybe, even have a slice of the bank's yearly profits, as they would lose their money if the bank folds .. things coming to this kind of arrangement

In Italy's case, sooner or later, the depositors will pay
.

Makes sense. We certainly can't count on governments watching out for our money unless it is tax time.

[Parodite]

.

Thanks.

Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

.

Worldwide .. the central banks and parliaments, silently, in most places already have, are introducing legislation that should a bank get in difficulty, the depositors must participate in the bailout of that bank, the depositors should get a haircut .. even Switzerland has silently already enacted such legislation, already the law

Such laws are fair, as depositors will be choosy where to deposit their money, and, banks to attract deposits must avoid (excessive) risky business .. banks in reality gambling with their depositors money and the depositors should be aware of this .. and, maybe, even have a slice of the bank's yearly profits, as they would lose their money if the bank folds .. things coming to this kind of arrangement

In Italy's case, sooner or later, the depositors will pay
.

Makes sense. We certainly can't count on governments watching out for our money unless it is tax time.

Concurred. But with a little caveat: given that all banks breath in the shared ocean of international capital with a 1000+ trillion of outstanding derivatives worldwide bubble that can suddenly burst, unravel and bring us all down. So in fact the possibility to stash away your money in "a safe deposit" does not exist anymore. Only lies keep us afloat, for if the facts would be openly communicated and acted upon politically the unraveling would kick start immediately. All that can be done is buying time, TARP, dream... Apres nous le deluge. After the collapse new currencies will emerge, many from scratch and locally that allow for economies to reboot.

[Doc]

.

Thanks.

Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

.

Worldwide .. the central banks and parliaments, silently, in most places already have, are introducing legislation that should a bank get in difficulty, the depositors must participate in the bailout of that bank, the depositors should get a haircut .. even Switzerland has silently already enacted such legislation, already the law

Such laws are fair, as depositors will be choosy where to deposit their money, and, banks to attract deposits must avoid (excessive) risky business .. banks in reality gambling with their depositors money and the depositors should be aware of this .. and, maybe, even have a slice of the bank's yearly profits, as they would lose their money if the bank folds .. things coming to this kind of arrangement

In Italy's case, sooner or later, the depositors will pay
.

Makes sense. We certainly can't count on governments watching out for our money unless it is tax time.

Concurred. But with a little caveat: given that all banks breath in the shared ocean of international capital with a 1000+ trillion of outstanding derivatives worldwide bubble that can suddenly burst, unravel and bring us all down. So in fact the possibility to stash away your money in "a safe deposit" does not exist anymore. Only lies keep us afloat, for if the facts would be openly communicated and acted upon politically the unraveling would kick start immediately. All that can be done is buying time, TARP, dream... Apres nous le deluge. After the collapse new currencies will emerge, many from scratch and locally that allow for economies to reboot.

"Invest in guns and ammo."

[monster_gardener]

.

Thanks.

Am curious how he wants to solve the banking crisis.

.

Worldwide .. the central banks and parliaments, silently, in most places already have, are introducing legislation that should a bank get in difficulty, the depositors must participate in the bailout of that bank, the depositors should get a haircut .. even Switzerland has silently already enacted such legislation, already the law

Such laws are fair, as depositors will be choosy where to deposit their money, and, banks to attract deposits must avoid (excessive) risky business .. banks in reality gambling with their depositors money and the depositors should be aware of this .. and, maybe, even have a slice of the bank's yearly profits, as they would lose their money if the bank folds .. things coming to this kind of arrangement

In Italy's case, sooner or later, the depositors will pay
.

Makes sense. We certainly can't count on governments watching out for our money unless it is tax time.

Concurred. But with a little caveat: given that all banks breath in the shared ocean of international capital with a 1000+ trillion of outstanding derivatives worldwide bubble that can suddenly burst, unravel and bring us all down. So in fact the possibility to stash away your money in "a safe deposit" does not exist anymore. Only lies keep us afloat, for if the facts would be openly communicated and acted upon politically the unraveling would kick start immediately. All that can be done is buying time, TARP, dream... Apres nous le deluge. After the collapse new currencies will emerge, many from scratch and locally that allow for economies to reboot.

"Invest in guns and ammo."

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Doc.

Also cans of beans and corn = protein. Tins of Tuna. Cans of chicken soup and fruit cocktail. Bottles of Bleach for water purification. Vitamin tablet especially vitamin C.

Any medications vital for you to have to survive.

Large bags of pet food. That dog may bark an alarm and save your life. And you can eat it as a last resort... The pet food that is......

Save the dog and hunt zombies for food if you have to.....

The dog is likely to be more loyal..

Dandelions are edible too

[Nonc Hilaire]

Eating dog food is dangerous. I tried to diet once by substituting dry dog food for snacks. It worked out well for a while, but a month later I was in the hospital.

[Doc]

Eating dog food is dangerous. I tried to diet once by substituting dry dog food for snacks. It worked out well for a while, but a month later I was in the hospital.

Maybe you should have gone to see a veterinarian .

[Nonc Hilaire]

Eating dog food is dangerous. I tried to diet once by substituting dry dog food for snacks. It worked out well for a while, but a month later I was in the hospital.

Maybe you should have gone to see a veterinarian .

Good advice. If I had been wearing one of those cones I probably would not have dislocated my hip trying to lick my balls.

[Azrael]

Eating dog food is dangerous. I tried to diet once by substituting dry dog food for snacks. It worked out well for a while, but a month later I was in the hospital.

Maybe you should have gone to see a veterinarian .

Good advice. If I had been wearing one of those cones I probably would not have dislocated my hip trying to lick my balls.

Brilliant! I loved the set-up, too.

[Alexis]

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's idea of how Italy could force Germany changing her policy with regard to the Euro-crisis

What Italy should do is to tell Germany that it will no longer participate in EMU unless the North reflates with an "internal revaluation" to close part of the gap. It should deploy its gold reserves to make this threat more credible.
Germany would know that Italy has the means to stabilise the Italian bond market after liberation. Italy is perfectly capable of doing this – and in my opinion would benefit – since it has a primary budget surplus of 2.5pc of GDP and would not face a funding crisis.
It would then be a matter of whether Germany has more to gain or lose by allowing such an event to unfold.
Let the Holy Roman Emperor come to Canossa.

My, my, my... I can imagine at least one of our posters here would love to see Holy Roman Emperess Merkel come to Canossa to ask forgiveness from Pope Enrico Letta

[Azrael]

That's a very good idea. Especially considering the high price of gold lately. They may as well leverage it when it is worth so much more than it used to be.

[Endovelico]

Italian senator says black minister has 'features of orangutan'
The Guardian, Sunday 14 July 2013 15.49 BST

The Italian prime minister, Enrico Letta, has condemned as unacceptable comments made by a senior rightwing senator in which he suggested the country's first black government minister had "the features of an orangutan".

Cécile Kyenge, an eye surgeon who was born in the Democratic Republic of the Congo but has Italian citizenship, has faced repeated racial slurs and threats since being appointed minister for integration by Letta in April.

She was once again on the receiving end of grossly offensive comments on Saturday when Roberto Calderoli, a former minister under Silvio Berlusconi and senate vice-president of the Northern League, told a rally in the northern town of Treviglio that Kyenge would be better off working as a minister "in her country".

According to the Corriere della Sera, which reported the event, he added: "I love animals – bears and wolves, as is known – but when I see the pictures of Kyenge I cannot but think of the features of an orangutan, even if I'm not saying she is one."

The remark provoked horror from the rest of the Italian political class, especially in Kyenge's centre-left Democratic party. In a statement, Letta said the remarks were unacceptable. "Full solidarity and support to Cécile," he added.

Asked about the comments, Kyenge said it was not up to her to call on Calderoli to resign, but hoped all politicians would "reflect on their use of communication". "I do not take Calderoli's words as a personal insult but they sadden me because of the image they give of Italy," she told the Ansa news agency.

Ever since she was made minister in Letta's fractious grand coalition government, Kyenge, 48, has been the target of much criticism from the League. Some of it has been directed at her policies, particularly her desire to change a harsh citizenship law to make it easier for Italian-born children of foreigners to gain full nationality before they are 18.

But some of it has been very personal and vitriolic. Mario Borghezio, a member of the European parliament for the League, said in April that Kyenge wanted to "impose her tribal traditions from the Congo" and branded Letta's coalition a "bongo bongo" government. "She seems like a great housekeeper but not a government minister."

In June a local councillor for the League was ejected from the party after she posted a message on Facebook suggesting Kyenge should be raped. Referring to an alleged attempted rape in Genoa, Dolores Valandro wrote: "Why does no one rape her, so she can understand what the victim of this atrocious crime felt?"

Asked on Sunday to explain the latest slur, Calderoli insisted he had been joking. "I was speaking at a rally and I made a joke, an unfortunate one perhaps," he told Ansa. "I did not want to cause offence and if Minister Kyenge has been offended I apologise but my joke came in the context of a much broader political speech that criticised the minister and her politics."

This is not the first time that the 57-year-old has caused controversy. In 2006 he quit the government after going on television in a T-shirt emblazoned with cartoons of the prophet Muhammad – a move credited with inspiring deadly riots outside the Italian consulate in Libya.

Later that year, after Italy's football team beat France in the World Cup, he said the opposing side had been made up of "niggers, Muslims and communists". In 2007, he called for a "Pig Day" protest against the construction of a mosque in Bologna.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... ile-kyenge

So it seems that the more "Germanic" northern Italians are not only more productive but also more racist. As one would expect from a "superior" Germanic tribe...

[Azrael]

Here's a screen shot of one of Calderoli's dreams last night



Don't worry. ALF saved him before he spilled his martini.

[Typhoon]

. . .

So it seems that the more "Germanic" northern Italians are not only more productive but also more racist. As one would expect from a "superior" Germanic tribe...

The ongoing fallacy of applying mathematical induction outside of mathematics.

Reassuring to see that Italians politicians are just as capable of being dumb and offensive as Japanese ones.

[Endovelico]

. . .

So it seems that the more "Germanic" northern Italians are not only more productive but also more racist. As one would expect from a "superior" Germanic tribe...

The ongoing fallacy of applying mathematical induction outside of mathematics.

Reassuring to see that Italians politicians are just as capable of being dumb and offensive as Japanese ones.

It's not by accident that the racist statements have come from Northern League circles. This is not just a case of a dumb politician being offensive, it is an ideological statement by people who feel superior not only to Africans but also to all other Italians. The German disease is here very much apparent.