Why is liberal democracy losing its appeal ?

[Typhoon]

And who are they supposed to serve? America's cultural institutions have always been largely limited to whites, who have viciously opposed their expansion to "other people". This was plainly evident during the Obama administration when deep-seated cultural anxiety boiled over because those "other people" suddenly became more visible.

Though it's hard to think of a "person of colour" who invented anything with moving parts, in professional sports and pop music they are vastly over-represented, and have been since at least the time of Nixon.


But it's true, they're in the headlines a lot what with riots inspired by hate groups like Black Lives Matter.

And academics and journalists and people like you talked about race and racism every day because apart from global warming, nothing else was happening in the world and there was nothing else to talk about.

LMGTFY

[Zack Morris]

1IDF-8khS3w

The guy who spent years of his life pushing a fake, racist birther conspiracy theory is trying to call out "fake" news. I guess we now know what Trump will be doing in the White House: media spectacles hosted by Breitbart and Faux News. Richard Nixon famously hated the WaPo and guess who published the scoop that took him down? Trump has a major target on his back now. He's unsettled and pissed off a lot of people. That means sources for journalists. Lots of them. Everything will soon come to light.

[Mr. Perfect]

Lol Donald Trump singlehandedly just beat every media outlet, every celebrity in hollywood, barack obama, Michelle Obama, George Soros, Bill Clinton, Hillary, nevertrump and the Bush family while spending half the money of the opposition, and is in the process of destroying the gobalist vestiges of the intelligence community and the state department. He hasn't even been sworn in yet, hasn't broken a sweat yet and appears to be having the time of his very successful life.

And you think Wolf Blitzer is going to take him down.

Tell me more.

PS BTW you are permanently finished.

[Mr. Perfect]

He had the largest target ever on his back when he came down the escalator and his opposition ended up blowing their own faces off.

[Zack Morris]

That's all true -- he won by telling complete lies every single day and all the while losing the popular vote. I guess he (or rather, his handlers) could be geniuses, like the Nazis, Putin, or any other historic liar who achieved political victory.

You seem to have a real problem weighing the means against the ends. And apparently a substantial (but declining) minority of the American people do, too.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

1IDF-8khS3w

The guy who spent years of his life pushing a fake, racist birther conspiracy theory is trying to call out "fake" news. I guess we now know what Trump will be doing in the White House: media spectacles hosted by Breitbart and Faux News. Richard Nixon famously hated the WaPo and guess who published the scoop that took him down? Trump has a major target on his back now. He's unsettled and pissed off a lot of people. That means sources for journalists. Lots of them. Everything will soon come to light.

The old saying is when you point a finger at someone, three more are pointing back towards you. Which may mean nothing more than they will keep coming......'>........

[Mr. Perfect]

That's all true -- he won by telling complete lies every single day and all the while losing the popular vote. I guess he (or rather, his handlers) could be geniuses, like the Nazis, Putin, or any other historic liar who achieved political victory.

You seem to have a real problem weighing the means against the ends. And apparently a substantial (but declining) minority of the American people do, too.

Lol, full liberal meltdown. Delicious.

Does anyone need a line by line on this one.

[Doc]

Why are Filipinos, Bangladeshis, and Indians pouring into Dubai and Saudi Arabia? Because these are inherently better, freer societies? DERRRR.

Don't mistake economic opportunity in frontier markets for moral enlightenment. Inherent Anglo-Saxon retrograde tendencies only began to be suppressed in the US and Canada ca. mid-century. Chinese and others who poured into the US in the late 19th century certainly did not arrive for political reasons. They came to make money in harsh circumstances and had few illusions about assimilation and acceptance into what was a violently hostile culture.

How would you know any of that.

Apparently Zack doesn't believe in the suppression that was 19th century Europe

[Zack Morris]

The "suppression that was 19th century Europe"? The US had full blown chattel slavery and was engaged in a genocide campaign.

[Typhoon]

The "suppression that was 19th century Europe"?

Serfdom in what was then the Russian Empire.
The Great Famine in Ireland: initially due to potato blight, but completely exacerbated by English policies.
Massive turmoil in Germany,: war, unemployment, revolution, religious conflicts, and inflation.
Rigid social structures, with systemic discrimination, throughout Europe.

Is world history no longer taught in US high schools and/or universities?

The US had full blown chattel slavery and was engaged in a genocide campaign.

And yet people emigrated to the US by the tens of millions in the 19th century with absolutely massive immigration in the earliest part of the 20th century.



Note that the US Civil War was but a blip in immigration into the US.

Anyways, it is interesting that the single largest ancestry group in the US is German.

[Zack Morris]

Serfdom in what was then the Russian Empire.
The Great Famine in Ireland: initially due to potato blight, but completely exacerbated by English policies.
Massive turmoil in Germany,: war, unemployment, revolution, religious conflicts, and inflation.
Rigid social structures, with systemic discrimination, throughout Europe.

None of this invalidates the core thesis that the core American Anglo-Saxon culture was inherently racist and that it was only through late 19th century immigration and the victory of the North in the Civil War that American ideals were truly born. In the 19th century, the USA was a vast, unpopulated wilderness and the Homestead Act had a role in sparking a wave of immigration.

Vestiges of pre-immigration America can be found in the Bible Belt, a region which to this day immigrants prefer to avoid and which serves as the intellectual heart of regressive Anglo-Saxon culture. Imagine if the rest of the USA were culturally like the South. It would be like some third-rate European or Latin American state.

And yet people emigrated to the US by the tens of millions in the 19th century with absolutely massive immigration in the earliest part of the 20th century.

They also immigrated by the tens of millions to South America. People came to the Americas primarily for land and for work.

Anyways, it is interesting that the single largest ancestry group in the US is German.

It's also one of the largest ancestry groups in Argentina and, I believe, Brazil.

[Typhoon]

Serfdom in what was then the Russian Empire.
The Great Famine in Ireland: initially due to potato blight, but completely exacerbated by English policies.
Massive turmoil in Germany,: war, unemployment, revolution, religious conflicts, and inflation.
Rigid social structures, with systemic discrimination, throughout Europe.

None of this invalidates the core thesis that the core American Anglo-Saxon culture was inherently racist and that it was only through late 19th century immigration and the victory of the North in the Civil War that American ideals were truly born.

The benefit of hindsight. About as relevant as a post-modern feminist critique of ancient Greece.

What culture was not inherently racist back then.

Most cultures today are inherently racist.
The concept of racial tolerance is today nearly, but not quite, unique to Anglo Saxon cultures.

In the 19th century, the USA was a vast, unpopulated wilderness and the Homestead Act had a role in sparking a wave of immigration.

And immigrate they did.

Vestiges of pre-immigration America can be found in the Bible Belt, a region which to this day immigrants prefer to avoid and which serves as the intellectual heart of regressive Anglo-Saxon culture. Imagine if the rest of the USA were culturally like the South. It would be like some third-rate European or Latin American state.

Interesting assertion. As always a complete lack of supporting evidence.

And yet people emigrated to the US by the tens of millions in the 19th century with absolutely massive immigration in the earliest part of the 20th century.

They also immigrated by the tens of millions to South America. People came to the Americas primarily for land and for work.

They came for opportunity. And had the luck of the draw.

Those who emigrated to S America, not so much.

Anyways, it is interesting that the single largest ancestry group in the US is German.

It's also one of the largest ancestry groups in Argentina and, I believe, Brazil.

The southern part of Brazil which is quite different than the central and northern parts.

The European ethnic ancestry in Brazil is predominantly Portuguese.
German is about an order of magnitude less, on the same order as Japanese.

The ethnic ancestry of Argentina is predominantly Spanish and Italian.

[Mr. Perfect]

I always find it interesting that if anyone wants to explore the faults of America, liberals are eager and ready to go with well rehearsed encyclopedic material on the subject. I mean if they are ready for anything it is the airing of grievances.

[Typhoon]

I always find it interesting that if anyone wants to explore the faults of America, liberals are eager and ready to go with well rehearsed encyclopedic material on the subject. I mean if they are ready for anything it is the airing of grievances.

One should remember the past, but I have never seen any point pretending to live in it.

[Simple Minded]

I always find it interesting that if anyone wants to explore the faults of America, liberals are eager and ready to go with well rehearsed encyclopedic material on the subject. I mean if they are ready for anything it is the airing of grievances.

One should remember the past, but I have never seen any point pretending to live in it.

Well said, Typhoon & Mr. Perfect. "The world does not measure up to the ideals I can imagine so I am going to whine about it," seems very much the mindset of an adolescent who is.... what's the chic term, oh yeah... bitter!

Reminds me of my immigrant Left Preaching Right Practicing (LPRP) friends, who came here from the UK, Germany, France, Rhodesia, South Africa, and Canada, 20 or even 30 years ago.

They air their grievances, I listen sympathetically (cause that's what friends do), and then in an attempt to help, I point out "and yet you're still here in this god forsaken hell hole of a country after 20 or 30 years. 20 or 30 years ago, you had the balls, the initiative, and the sense of personal responsibility to migrate to improve the quality of your life. Why have you changed?"

They laugh. It always seems to make them feel better.....

If that doesn't work, we turn the conversation to the vengeful god of Climate Change!

[Doc]

"airing of grievances" or mass delusion?

chelsea.jpg (42.74 KiB) Viewed 845 times

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

"Liberal Democracy" is losing its appeal because our upper classes convinced themselves, post WWII, that the masses from the lower orders were responsible for the two world wars and couldn't be trusted in any capacity.

It was a revolt against the masses which has become quite a bête noire and common enemy for people who otherwise have divergent interests.

[Zack Morris]

Serfdom in what was then the Russian Empire.
The Great Famine in Ireland: initially due to potato blight, but completely exacerbated by English policies.
Massive turmoil in Germany,: war, unemployment, revolution, religious conflicts, and inflation.
Rigid social structures, with systemic discrimination, throughout Europe.

None of this invalidates the core thesis that the core American Anglo-Saxon culture was inherently racist and that it was only through late 19th century immigration and the victory of the North in the Civil War that American ideals were truly born.

The benefit of hindsight. About as relevant as a post-modernist feminist critique of ancient Greece.
Not.

What culture was not inherently racist back then.

Most cultures today are inherently racist.
The concept of racial tolerance is today nearly, but not quite, unique to Anglo Saxon cultures.

Strawman argument. The point isn't about who is more racist, the point is that the founding myths of America are exactly that: myths. Revisionism. There's nothing special about US governing principles and today, there are numerous equivalent societies, from North America to Europe to East Asia, that enjoy equivalent or better standards of living and transparent governance. There are also numerous countries with rule of law and democratic governance consistent with European Enlightenment values that are nevertheless economically weaker. There is only a weak correlation between the two.

They came for opportunity. And had the luck of the draw.

Today, some people choose to come to Saudi Arabia and Dubai for opportunity. It's not a reflection of anything special about their social system. Likewise, Europe also attracts literal hordes of immigrants.

The point is that the US has little claim to any sort of exceptionalism and, more importantly, looking backwards to times before the mid-20th century is outright harmful thinking. There is nothing for us to emulate there. The likes of Appollonius have a barely concealed contempt for non-whites (see his comments on "coloreds" having contributed nothing) and yearn for some sort of white rebirth, which is one of the primary pillars of Trumpism. It's never actually going to happen, of course, nor should it.

Deep down, the fear that Trump supporters have is that the historical crimes that they support will be visited upon them. But these are just paranoid delusions of guilty minds.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Serfdom in what was then the Russian Empire.
The Great Famine in Ireland: initially due to potato blight, but completely exacerbated by English policies.
Massive turmoil in Germany,: war, unemployment, revolution, religious conflicts, and inflation.
Rigid social structures, with systemic discrimination, throughout Europe.

None of this invalidates the core thesis that the core American Anglo-Saxon culture was inherently racist and that it was only through late 19th century immigration and the victory of the North in the Civil War that American ideals were truly born.

The benefit of hindsight. About as relevant as a post-modernist feminist critique of ancient Greece.
Not.

What culture was not inherently racist back then.

Most cultures today are inherently racist.
The concept of racial tolerance is today nearly, but not quite, unique to Anglo Saxon cultures.

The point isn't about who is more racist, the point is that the founding myths of America are exactly that: myths.

If that were your argument, you would lead with that- you are attempting to sneak your argument from morality [America is invalid because its immoral] across the goal line.

[Doc]

a) A total disregard for innocent lives

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/ ... n-afghani/

Obama-led drone strikes kill innocents 90% of the time: report
By Andrew Blake - The Washington Times
Thursday, October 15, 2015

Drone strikes conducted by the United States during a 5-month-long campaign in Afghanistan caused the deaths of unintended targets nearly nine out of ten times, leaked intelligence documents suggest.

The apparent 10 percent success rate with regards to a specific span in America’s drone war is among the most damning revelations to surface so far as the result of a series of articles published by The Intercept on Thursday this week which rely on classified and confidential intelligence documents supplied by an unknown source.

“These docs illustrate what a video game, drained of all humanity, these drone assassinations have become,” founding editor Glenn Greenwald tweeted on Thursday.

When is Obama going to stand trial in the ICC? Considering that like minded leftists control even that I would think never.

[Zack Morris]

If that were your argument, you would lead with that- you are attempting to sneak your argument from morality [America is invalid because its immoral] across the goal line.

We can say one thing with certainty here: Trump and his vision are invalid.

Least popular incoming President ever. Record popular vote loss. Record amount of scandals and he's not even actually President yet!

[Doc]

If that were your argument, you would lead with that- you are attempting to sneak your argument from morality [America is invalid because its immoral] across the goal line.

We can say one thing with certainty here: Trump and his vision are invalid.

Least popular incoming President ever. Record popular vote loss. Record amount of scandals and he's not even actually President yet!

You mean you can make the purely emotional arguments about Trump irregardless of the facts...So tell us something we don't already know... Though you can always make up new facts...

Lets hear some more of those.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

If that were your argument, you would lead with that- you are attempting to sneak your argument from morality [America is invalid because its immoral] across the goal line.

We can say one thing with certainty here: Trump and his vision are invalid.

Least popular incoming President ever. Record popular vote loss. Record amount of scandals and he's not even actually President yet!

Neither candidate can claim anything but a plurality of the vote. His glaring deficit is a California which is overwhelmingly out of step with the rest of the country, Republican and Democratic states alike.

[Mr. Perfect]

Strawman argument. The point isn't about who is more racist, the point is that the founding myths of America are exactly that: myths. Revisionism.

What you will never be able to revise away is that the moral, intellectual and cultural accomplishment of the US Constitution ranks among the highest human achievements ever of any type, and it could only be done in the United States.

There's nothing special about US governing principles and today, there are numerous equivalent societies, from North America to Europe to East Asia, that enjoy equivalent or better standards of living and transparent governance. There are also numerous countries with rule of law and democratic governance consistent with European Enlightenment values that are nevertheless economically weaker. There is only a weak correlation between the two.

The point is that the US has little claim to any sort of exceptionalism

Among the many things that makes America exceptional is we were the first.

Deep down, the fear that Trump supporters have is that the historical crimes that they support will be visited upon them. But these are just paranoid delusions of guilty minds.

There are some paranoid delusions in this statement no doubt about it.

[Mr. Perfect]

We can say one thing with certainty here: Trump and his vision are invalid.

Lol Trump's vision will easily be implemented by record GOP majorities.

Least popular incoming President ever.

Lol. You believe polls. Cute.

Record popular vote loss.

Lol. Trump beat every media outlet, every hollywood celebrity, most of the donors, barack obama, Michelle Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, nevertrump, GOPe, and the Bush family while being outspent by over 2-1. It was a record alright but of a different sort than what you are referring to.

Record amount of scandals and he's not even actually President yet!

Lol you meant to say record media attacks, crying fits and temper tantrums. I know you may not understand this but you are almost out of bullets. The buzzfeed material was your Ace card and it didn't even scratch the Trump card.