On the Nature of Things | Forum

I got boots that weigh more than Andy Jackson. If I'm ever 140 pounds, it's because the top third of me has been eaten by sharks.

One thing that "Guns, Germs and Steel" did not discuss was the enormous advantage given by Europe's huge coastline, more than any other continent. This allowed/forced Europe to develop maritime tech. Huge military and trade advantages followed, which were exported to America.

Alexis wrote:

monster_gardener wrote:Against some people, you MAY need to act like a Mongol/Genghis Khan..... Give a city a chance to surrender, that being refused, everyone/anyone not useful who survives the assault is killed......... Next city is more likely to submit without a struggle...........

You MAY need to act like that, if it is your intention to occupy their country, steal their wealth and do the usual imperial routine.

On the other hand... you MAY also give up such an intention

If you are facing a Genghis Khan, may be best to either submit* or fight all out no holds barred no trick too dirty being determined to either win or die trying

The better option is to maintain at sea constantly at least one such boat:

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Alexis.

Good Post. Good points..........

I was thinking of the True Believer Al Queda/Afghan Taliban types out to conquer revive the Caliphate, conquer the World for Allah the Moon God and put it under Sharia.........

What happens when they too have WMD...... perhaps on an Iranian, PakRat or a Nork Rent A Sub and they believe that 70 Virgins and Heaven is their fate if they die. It suits them just fine and dandy to have so much chaos in the world that the Madhi rises out of his well in Qom. They long for the Day of their Lord...........


I have NO Interest in economic exploitation of Al Queda/Taliban infested places like Trashcanistan .........

My interest is that we stay here and THEY STAY THERE.........

It's said to have Trillions in rare earths and other minerals but.............

It would suit me fine to see the Chinese deal with the Benefactor Betraying Pashtuns as the Chinese deal with the AIUI less offensive Uighers and Tibetans but cubed on steroids....

Or for the resources to remain forever unexploited while the Pashtuns and other tribes merrily murder each other.........

Looking back at the Soviet Afghan War, sometimes I wonder if we Uz chose to aid the wrong side for revenge and pique........ It might have been better to have Armed the Bears .....rather than the 2 legged S.O.B false Afghan hounds.... and subtly let the Bears have things like satellite recon...... risky....... but often better to be either for or against and not just mugwump neutral though that is the temptation.......

We might have ended up with a CoDominion situation, more space exploration and our Bankster financial elite and the Koch Brothers might still be afraid that the Commies would win, kill them and take their wealth to the point that these John Galt/Ayn Rand worshipers would feel the need to share some of the prize money with the unionized foot soldiers & sailors Down in the Black Gang....

Know that those "Good Old Days" weren't that great...... Constant justified worry that the Nuclear Balloon would go up and that this would mean the East Euros would still be under the Soviet Yoke.... But I do miss having atheistic no hope for tomorrow adversaries who love their children more than their false prophet vs. the religious fanatics of Crazyland/the MidEast.........

But if we were cooperating to a degree maybe the question would be who launches the first Orion probe to Alpha C or stops Apophis from striking the Earth rather than will Israel strike Iran before Iran nukes Israel and gets irradiated with Israeli salted nukes... Before the next Bankster scam destroys the world financially.....

Probably just vain imaginings..............

monster_gardener wrote:

Alexis wrote:

monster_gardener wrote:Against some people, you MAY need to act like a Mongol/Genghis Khan..... Give a city a chance to surrender, that being refused, everyone/anyone not useful who survives the assault is killed......... Next city is more likely to submit without a struggle...........

You MAY need to act like that, if it is your intention to occupy their country, steal their wealth and do the usual imperial routine.

On the other hand... you MAY also give up such an intention

If you are facing a Genghis Khan, may be best to either submit* or fight all out no holds barred no trick too dirty being determined to either win or die trying

The better option is to maintain at sea constantly at least one such boat:

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Alexis.

Good Post. Good points..........

I was thinking of the True Believer Al Queda/Afghan Taliban types out to conquer revive the Caliphate, conquer the World for Allah the Moon God and put it under Sharia.........

What happens when they too have WMD...... perhaps on an Iranian, PakRat or a Nork Rent A Sub and they believe that 70 Virgins and Heaven is their fate if they die. It suits them just fine and dandy to have so much chaos in the world that the Madhi rises out of his well in Qom. They long for the Day of their Lord...........


I have NO Interest in economic exploitation of Al Queda/Taliban infested places like Trashcanistan .........

My interest is that we stay here and THEY STAY THERE.........

It's said to have Trillions in rare earths and other minerals but.............

It would suit me fine to see the Chinese deal with the Benefactor Betraying Pashtuns as the Chinese deal with the AIUI less offensive Uighers and Tibetans but cubed on steroids....

Or for the resources to remain forever unexploited while the Pashtuns and other tribes merrily murder each other.........

Looking back at the Soviet Afghan War, sometimes I wonder if we Uz chose to aid the wrong side for revenge and pique........ It might have been better to have Armed the Bears .....rather than the 2 legged S.O.B false Afghan hounds.... and subtly let the Bears have things like satellite recon...... risky....... but often better to be either for or against and not just mugwump neutral though that is the temptation.......

We might have ended up with a CoDominion situation, more space exploration and our Bankster financial elite and the Koch Brothers might still be afraid that the Commies would win, kill them and take their wealth to the point that these John Galt/Ayn Rand worshipers would feel the need to share some of the prize money with the unionized foot soldiers & sailors Down in the Black Gang....

Know that those "Good Old Days" weren't that great...... Constant justified worry that the Nuclear Balloon would go up and that this would mean the East Euros would still be under the Soviet Yoke.... But I do miss having atheistic no hope for tomorrow adversaries who love their children more than their false prophet vs. the religious fanatics of Crazyland/the MidEast.........

But if we were cooperating to a degree maybe the question would be who launches the first Orion probe to Alpha C or stops Apophis from striking the Earth rather than will Israel strike Iran before Iran nukes Israel and gets irradiated with Israeli salted nukes... Before the next Bankster scam destroys the world financially.....

Probably just vain imaginings..............

Another scenario that might have worked even better is when Iraq invaded Kuwait, the west pretended not to hear the phone ringing, or encouraged the KSA to use OBL's forces to oust Iraq from there. Chances are they'd still be at it, and the west would be ignored altogether!

Milo wrote:One thing that "Guns, Germs and Steel" did not discuss was the enormous advantage given by Europe's huge coastline, more than any other continent.

Sure, that explains it.

Demon of Undoing wrote:

Taboo wrote:Alexis was talking about stealth submarines armed with long-range nuclear missiles, to act as a secure second-strike capability, deterring foreign aggression by credibly promising to replace the main urban centers of any aggressors with a set of nice glassy glowing fields by breakfast time, day of the invasion.

Right. And in today's world, a credible second strike capability can only be had by putting to sea. Unless you can make as many nukes as the Sovs or Americans.

The advantage to sea power was huge post- 1600. It still is today. Nobody is worried about Israel's nukes as delivered by F15s. That can be killed on the ground by a surprise strike( nuclear?). But the Dolphins? Bring your Geiger counter and a shitload of time an adversary won't have.

But that isn't really sea-power per se, but a sneaky second-strike capability. After reading about anti-ship ballistic missile technology that the Chinese already have deployed, conventional sea power is past it's sell-by date.

All the action is at the extremes now. The most effective weapons to invest in are either space-based supermissiles or a cell phone and some surplus Iranian artillery shells.

Enki wrote:Nap: That's interesting, but when I was so skinny that my hips jutted out from my body, I was 155 at 6'. A 6' tall man's skeleton and organs weight probably 110-120lbs. If I were to lose all of my fat, I would still be close to 170.

You're probably right. Their source for it is some medical journal and I did a google search and it looks like it's a well-told legend if untrue.

It seems more fantastic that James Madison is listed as 5'4" 100 lbs. I personally have trouble imagining an adult man weighing that little.

The only thing I'd say in its defense is that Jackson, as a slave owner and officer, wasn't exactly living a very physical life.

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Enki wrote:Nap: That's interesting, but when I was so skinny that my hips jutted out from my body, I was 155 at 6'. A 6' tall man's skeleton and organs weight probably 110-120lbs. If I were to lose all of my fat, I would still be close to 170.

You're probably right. Their source for it is some medical journal and I did a google search and it looks like it's a well-told legend if untrue.

It seems more fantastic that James Madison is listed as 5'4" 100 lbs. I personally have trouble imagining an adult man weighing that little.

The only thing I'd say in its defense is that Jackson, as a slave owner and officer, wasn't exactly living a very physical life.

Thank You Very Much for your Post, Nap.

The only thing I'd say in its defense is that Jackson, as a slave owner and officer, wasn't exactly living a very physical life.

If he wasn't living a very physical life, then barring some unusual metabolic condition unless he was on a low calorie diet, shouldn't he have weighed more...

FWIW..........

Jackson was nicknamed "Old Hickory" because of his toughness and aggressive personality; he fought in duels, some fatal to his opponents.[

AIUI Jackson drove himself as hard as he drove his troops which combined with his military success made him very popular.............

It seems more fantastic that James Madison is listed as 5'4" 100 lbs. I personally have trouble imagining an adult man weighing that little.

Almost a short Jack Sprat and his wife AIUI..............

Recalling some humor in history class when the size difference between James and Dolly Madison his wife was pointed out.......
(Note: I have not verified this ..... No time for more than a quick Google....... )

Andy Jackson ( "Old Hickory") was tough as a cob.

Weren't a hair on The Great Western.


Sorry. Been rereading Larry McMurtry.

monster_gardener wrote:
Thank You Very Much for your Post, Nap.



If he wasn't living a very physical life, then barring some unusual metabolic condition unless he was on a low calorie diet, shouldn't he have weighed more...

FWIW..........

You're probably right too.

I didn't think a throwaway joke would cause this much conversation.

Whatever the guy weighed, he was skinny.