Iran

[Mr. Perfect]

Saying stuff like this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... HF20120924

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Monday disregarded a U.N. warning to avoid incendiary rhetoric and declared ahead of the annual General Assembly session that Israel has no roots in the Middle East and would be "eliminated."

Ahmadinejad also said he did not take seriously the threat that Israel could launch a military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, denied sending arms to Syria, and alluded to Iran's threats to the life of British author Salman Rushdie.

"Iran has been around for the last seven, 10 thousand years. They (the Israelis) have been occupying those territories for the last 60 to 70 years, with the support and force of the Westerners. They have no roots there in history," he said, referring to the founding of the modern state of Israel in 1948.

"We do believe that they have found themselves at a dead end and they are seeking new adventures in order to escape this dead end. Iran will not be damaged with foreign bombs," Ahmadinejad said, speaking through an interpreter at his Manhattan hotel.

"We don't even count them as any part of any equation for Iran. During a historical phase, they (the Israelis) represent minimal disturbances that come into the picture and are then eliminated," he added.

[Skin Job]

The doctrine of preemption is just the philosophy of a bully. If Iran dares to strike, there should be no qualms about a massive retaliation. Until then, there's not much to do but warn them of the inevitable consequences of rash action. For some reason, Iranians are perceived to be foolish enough to do something as stupid as to invite the total destruction of their country. Their type of bombastic saber-rattling helps give this impression, but some of this is misunderstood by the West. They're not stupid.

[Mr. Perfect]

Except the state of Israel has a fairly unique circumstance where one direct hit can end their nation. And of course your life is not being gambled on whether or not they are stupid. Lots and lots and lots of people are stupid, what would make them exempt? Nations have been invading nations for all kinds of reasons since nations were created, why do you think the phenomenon magically ended while you happened to be alive in 2012?

[monster_gardener]

How does one nation obtain the right to dictate to another what they can create in the privacy of their own laboratories?

Thank you VERY Much for your question, Skin Job.

This is an old but more acute problem.......

Given that we fallen angel killer apes almost certainly have the means/weapons to destroy/make the Earth uninhabitable for fallen angel killer apes, rights aside, it is in the rational self interest of fallen angel killer apes to make sure that the more insane/evil/idealistic of us/uz do not have access to said weapons......

And IMVHO we may be doing a progressively worse job at it....... Kim II Jung........ Madhi Meme...... Samson Meme...... Etc........

IMVHO we Uz and the World MAY have been better off with the Nuke and BioChem armed but comparatively rational atheist Soviet Russians who loved their children but had no hope of an afterlife as opponents compared to Iranians/Muslims with the MADhi meme.....

Many damned close calls as it was....... Cuban Missile Crisis....... that satellite launch in Scandinavia IIRC..... the real Red October Submarine ...........

Or BLUNTLY perhaps compared to some of UZselves who do crazy things like try to breed the Red Heifer in an attempt to bring on Second Coming of Jesus and the End Times.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer#Christians

And it is very possible that in trying to prevent the worst, we may cause it............

Short of a Major Moral Miracle, Separatism in Space may be the best option for survival......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonizati ... Advantages

May have to settle for the Southern Hemisphere or Under the Sea

[Ibrahim]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

Precisely. Based on the thread title alone this premise is pure nonsense.

edit: thread merged with general Iran thread, previous title was a reference to Iran preemptively attacking Israel

[monster_gardener]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

Precisely. Based on the thread title alone this premise is pure nonsense.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Since human beings are largely sinful killer apes whose depravity can approach that of fallen angels............

IMVHO it is NOT pure nonsense.......

How about that once they have a nukes, the Iranians under the influence of the MADhi meme decide that if they get lucky/Inshallah, they can nail Israel before Israel nails them back...

And that even if they don't, it's Allah will and may advance the Final Judgement where the good, Shia Muslims will be rewarded and the evil will be punished..........

And even that aside, Iran is big enough to take some nuclear punches while 1 well placed and sized nuke will make Israel untenable as a place to live.......
Say hello to KaliFate/the New Persian Hegemonic Empire with the Shia the Heros of the Muslim World for kicking Jewish and other Infidel butts....

The Red/Mainland Chinese have said pretty much the same thing in Commie terms at times

The wild card is likely salted nukes whose fallout might make much of the Northern Hemisphere/World uninhabitable........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb

[Mr. Perfect]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

Precisely. Based on the thread title alone this premise is pure nonsense.

Thanks for reading my material Ibs.

The Iranians say they are considering pre-emption, not me. Please read the article

[Skin Job]

Perhaps we should begin preemptively killing people who show a propensity to be serial killers, so that they won't have the opportunity to perhaps commit murders in the future.

[Endovelico]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

[Mr. Perfect]

Perhaps we should begin preemptively killing people who show a propensity to be serial killers, so that they won't have the opportunity to perhaps commit murders in the future.

I'll split the difference, I think we should monitor people who threaten other people at the very least.

[Mr. Perfect]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

I think a lot of people agree with you.

[monster_gardener]

Perhaps we should begin preemptively killing people who show a propensity to be serial killers, so that they won't have the opportunity to perhaps commit murders in the future.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Skin Job.

I must Report that a Minority has tried that or similar but it was failure......

Om3yUbHvERM

Captain John Anderton (Tom Cruise) is chief of the highly controversial Washington, D.C., PreCrime police force. They use future visions generated by three "precogs", mutated humans with precognitive abilities, to stop murders; because of this, the city has been murder-free for six years. Though Anderton is a respected member of the force, he is addicted to Neuroin, an illegal psychoactive drug. His addiction started following the disappearance of his son Sean, which also caused his wife Lara to leave him. With the PreCrime force poised to go nationwide, the system is audited by Danny Witwer (Colin Farrell), a member of the Department of Justice. During the audit, the precogs predict that Anderton will murder a man named Leo Crow in 36 hours. Believing the incident to be a setup by Witwer, who is aware of Anderton's addiction, Anderton attempts to hide the case and quickly departs the area before Witwer begins a manhunt for him. Anderton seeks the advice of Dr. Iris Hineman (Lois Smith), the lead researcher of the PreCrime technology. She explains to Anderton that sometimes the three precogs see different visions of the future, in which case the system only provides data on the two reports which agree; the "minority report", reflecting the potential future where a predicted killer would have done something different, is discarded. According to Dr. Hineman, the female precog Agatha is most likely to be the precog that witnesses the minority report.

Anderton undergoes a dangerous underground eye replacement to avoid detection by the city's optical recognition system. He travels back to PreCrime and kidnaps Agatha (Samantha Morton), which disables the precogs' hive mind and shuts down the system. Anderton takes Agatha to a shopping mall, and a hacker, who extracts both Agatha's vision of Crow's murder—with no differences from the other two precogs, so there was no minority report—and another of the murder of a woman named Anne Lively—which Agatha also showed to Anderton the day before he was incriminated. Anderton and Agatha then head to the apartment where Crow is to be killed. Inside, Anderton finds hundreds of pictures of children, one of which is of his son, and concludes that Crow is responsible for Sean's disappearance. When Crow arrives, Anderton holds him at gunpoint, but ultimately decides to control his anger and places Crow under arrest instead. Crow admits that he was hired to plant these photos and then be killed, so his family would be paid handsomely. Since Anderton refuses to kill him, Crow grabs the officer's hand and makes him fire at point-blank range, effectively committing suicide by cop. On the run, Anderton and Agatha approach his ex-wife Lara for refuge. Anderton learns Lively was Agatha's former drug-addicted mother, once before a target of a failed murder attempt after requesting to see her daughter before her death. Anderton realizes that his knowledge of the Lively case is why he is being targeted.

Meanwhile, Witwer assesses Crow's "murder" and doubts that Anderton killed him in cold blood. He comes to recognize that the archival footage of Lively's murder shows what appears to be a future echo by one of the visions, routinely discarded by PreCrime, which he realizes is a different murder as nearby water is rippling in a different direction from the original PreCrime vision. He suspects someone used this to stage the first murder attempt, and then recreated the setting to actually kill Lively and avoid being detected by PreCrime. Witwer realizes that the murderer would had to have been someone high up in PreCrime to have access to the vision, and reports these findings to PreCrime's Director Lamar Burgess (Max von Sydow). Burgess, noting that the PreCrime division is currently disabled due to Agatha's absence, kills Witwer and frames Anderton for that murder as well.The PreCrime unit eventually captures Anderton and restores Agatha to the system. Burgess attempts to comfort Lara, but accidentally reveals that he was the one that killed Lively. Lara acts on this information and frees Anderton at gunpoint. At a banquet to celebrate the success of the PreCrime unit attended by Burgess, Anderton plays back Agatha's vision of Lively's murder for the gathered crowd, which shows Burgess as the murderer. While Burgess begins to hunt down Anderton, a new PreCrime report is created: Anderton is the victim and Burgess, the murderer. When Burgess catches up to Anderton, Anderton explains the impossible situation: if Burgess kills Anderton, he proves the system works but at the cost of a life sentence, while if he does not, the system will not have worked and the PreCrime division will be shut down. Anderton explains the fundamental flaw in the system: if one knows his or her future, he or she can change it. Burgess resolves the dilemma by killing himself. The PreCrime program is shut down and the prisoners are unconditionally pardoned and released, though police departments keep watch on many of them. Anderton and Lara remarry and start a new family. The precogs are sent to an "undisclosed location", a small uncharted island in the North Atlantic Ocean to live out a full happy life in peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_%28film%29

[Skin Job]

Perhaps we should begin preemptively killing people who show a propensity to be serial killers, so that they won't have the opportunity to perhaps commit murders in the future.

I'll split the difference, I think we should monitor people who threaten other people at the very least.

Fair enough, and we should continue to monitor Iran VERY closely. If they are indeed mad enough to trigger their own destruction, their aggression will result in possibly the most terrible retribution the world has ever seen.

@m_g, yes, saw the movie, but in our reality we do not even have the benefit of proven precogs, yet so many are champing at the bit to kill who knows how many people.

Are there any credible estimates as to how many citizens of Iran will be killed as a result of this proposed preventative medicine? Is there a number that is too many, or the more the better?

[Mr. Perfect]

Fair enough, and we should continue to monitor Iran VERY closely.

Ok good. But monitor for what? And if we find the what what should we do about it?

If they are indeed mad enough to trigger their own destruction, their aggression will result in possibly the most terrible retribution the world has ever seen.

I don't think so. No one is going to be on Iran's side, except some simpering leftists. But they will be rather quiet about it.

[Ibrahim]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

Makes more sense for Iran to continue their enrichment program while making diplomatic overtures alternating with veiled threats to the international community. Worked for North Korea.

If Israel actually attacks Iran not only would Iran in general survive the attack, but the Iranian nuclear program wouldn't even be halted (or so senior Israeli intelligence officials told The New Yorker), plus it would also strengthen support behind the present regime and confirm some of the less-insane anti-Israeli propaganda they've been spouting for years. So they don't even really need to be worried about an Israeli attack. If Iran attacked Israel, Israel would have broad international support (which they don't at present) and could also theoretically retaliate with their own denied-but-obviously-possessed nuclear capability.

[Skin Job]

Fair enough, and we should continue to monitor Iran VERY closely.

Ok good. But monitor for what? And if we find the what what should we do about it?

If they are indeed mad enough to trigger their own destruction, their aggression will result in possibly the most terrible retribution the world has ever seen.

I don't think so. No one is going to be on Iran's side, except some simpering leftists. But they will be rather quiet about it.

You mistake me. The retribution will be against Iran.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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The doctrine of preemption is just the philosophy of a bully. If Iran dares to strike, there should be no qualms about a massive retaliation. Until then, there's not much to do but warn them of the inevitable consequences of rash action. For some reason, Iranians are perceived to be foolish enough to do something as stupid as to invite the total destruction of their country. Their type of bombastic saber-rattling helps give this impression, but some of this is misunderstood by the West. They're not stupid.

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"Skin Job" , can you pls tell us why Zionist bombing Iran is not so stupid and irrational (matter of fact acceptable by western mindset) , but, Iran bombing Israel to prevent Israel bombing Iran is utterly foolish and stupid ? ?

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

Iranian might be crazy, but they no idiots

Fair enough, and we should continue to monitor Iran VERY closely.

Ok good. But monitor for what? And if we find the what what should we do about it?

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No one is going to be on Iran's side, except some simpering leftists. But they will be rather quiet about it.
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This not guessing game, NAM conference in Tehran, 3/4 of UN members, in the closing communique, sided squarely with Iran, 100% with Iran

NAM conference took the wind out of Zionist/Western sail that "international community" is against Iran .. in fact, "International community" IS with Iran

That fact is another hindrance for western military action against Iran .. if west attacks Iran, world order will change, same thing will happen to west as happened to Brtis in WW2 .. Brtis were world rulers with their colonies and Brtish-Pound #1 world currency .. now they nobody

If West attacks Iran, behind the vale world-power-poles now dormant will step forward and lead
sort of WW3 .. and .. when dust settles, things will be totally different .. exactly same as happened after WW2 was finished, but this time new players will replace western hegemonic powers

Issue not Israel, things much bitter than that .. and .. true, in the process, Israel might disappear too



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[monster_gardener]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Endo.

The Iranians better have ASW good enough to take out the Iz Nuke subs whose missiles if we are lucky have gold casings and tampers rather than cobalt.......

Will you also endorse Israel doing the same?..........

The Iranians have spoken of raining fire on Israel..... Sounds like bombing to me........

FWIW IMVHO Both Iran and Israel need to take it down several notches and cool this before it blows up the Middle East and maybe Northern Hemisphere..... Maybe more.....

And again FWIW IMVHO it was the Iranians under AyaToilet Khomeini who unfriended
Israel first....... Even before there was a Facebook :l

[Jnalum Persicum]

Why in God's name would Iran strike first?

I can understand the logic of a preemptive strike by Iran against Israel. When Israel consistently threatens to bomb Iran, why should Iran wait for that to happen at a time and in a manner convenient to Israel? If there is going to be war, then let Iran choose the time and manner in which that war would start. Bomb Israel's nuclear facilities (Dimona), before Israel can do that to Iran.

The Iranians have spoken of raining fire on Israel .

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wrong, Monster

Iran always has said, if Israel attacks Iran, Iran will hit back devastating Israel

Iran has not attacked anybody last 200+ yrs .. and will not attack Israel or anybody else, unless attacked first


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[Skin Job]

"Skin Job" , can you pls tell us why Zionist bombing Iran is not so stupid and irrational (matter of fact acceptable by western mindset) , but, Iran bombing Israel to prevent Israel bombing Iran is utterly foolish and stupid ? ?

I've never made any such assertion, so why would you want me to defend something I did not say? A preemptive attack by Israel upon Iran is not acceptable to this Westerner. If you want to ask me more questions I would encourage you to read my posts in this thread first.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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"Skin Job" , can you pls tell us why Zionist bombing Iran is not so stupid and irrational (matter of fact acceptable by western mindset) , but, Iran bombing Israel to prevent Israel bombing Iran is utterly foolish and stupid ? ?

.

I've never made any such assertion, so why would you want me to defend something I did not say? A preemptive attack by Israel upon Iran is not acceptable to this Westerner. If you want to ask me more questions I would encourage you to read my posts in this thread first.

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Well, SJ


Israel and America, since a few years, every week, saying Israel and America want to make a
preemptive strike on Iran .. preemptive strike on Iran is front news of all Israeli paper since long long time .. nobody objected in west

but , when Iran says, maybe Iran too should make a preemptive strike when and if Iran feels Israel would attack Iran any moment, you, below, consider "rash action" , "foolish" , "stupid" , "total, massive destruction" , "bombastic saber-rattling"

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The doctrine of preemption is just the philosophy of a bully. If Iran dares to strike, there should be no qualms about a massive retaliation. Until then, there's not much to do but warn them of the inevitable consequences of rash action. For some reason, Iranians are perceived to be foolish enough to do something as stupid as to invite the total destruction of their country. Their type of bombastic saber-rattling helps give this impression, but some of this is misunderstood by the West. They're not stupid.

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well, SJ , sorry, probably I misread your post


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[Jnalum Persicum]

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U.S. envoys remained seated

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The fact that nobody walked out on Ahmadinejad has sent a clear message to Netanyahu that the days when Israel could demand other nations send their children to war with Israel’s enemies are numbered.
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Ron Prosor Israel’s UN Ambassador walks out alone !
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“Some members of the Security Council with veto rights have chosen silence with regard to the nuclear warheads of a fake regime, while at the same time impeding…the scientific progress of other nations.”
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. . calling attention to those who “infringe upon other’s freedom and allow sacrilege to people’s beliefs and sanctities, while they criticize posing questions or investigating into historical issues.”
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Netanyahu has played gambit after gambit after gambit and finds himself checkmated. Nuclear threat didn’t play after the Iraq debacle. Red lines did not work. Tinkering with the US election did not work. AIPAC did not work.

Netanyahu must be feeling checkmated right about now, leaving his only remaining play as “knee to corner of board”, i.e. a false-flag attack. Except of course, that is what everyone is expecting Netanyahu to be considering right now, which means it is a risky gambit not likely to reverse Israel’s situation.

Netanyahu must be throwing a tantrum right about now, He grew up politically in a climate where whatever Israel wanted, Israel got; money, American kids to throw onto the bayonets of Israel’s enemies, etc. Netanyahu is not a man used to dealing with failure. In many ways he is a spoiled child, spoiled by decades of US acquiescence to Israel’s will and because of the US, other nations also bowed to Tel Aviv.

The US envoys have sent a very clear diplomatic message to the rest of the UN that they no longer back Israel’s demands for more war.

A rational man would topple his King and admit defeat, but Netanyahu may not be rational. He may stage a false-flag. He may just go ahead and attack Iran’s power station. He may, out of pure spite, blow the whistle on who really did 9-11, confident that the revelations will harm the US Government more than it will harm Israel. Such deceptions are, after all, what Israel is famous for. It’s expected!

But one thing is certain, Bibi will probably in one form or another hit the panic button to get his war with Iran before Israel’s October elections.
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HAL9000, you home ? ? ? NOBODY WALKED OUT



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[Jnalum Persicum]

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HAL9000, you home ? ? ? NOBODY WALKED OUT


rdQT2WITrkU



makes sense 2meeeeee



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[Jnalum Persicum]

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http://www.iranreview.org/content/Docum ... States.htm

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Basic Guarantees Israel Demands from the United States

1. Israel has figured out that the stance of the US is now weakened and it is probable that they will compromise with the Islamic Republic, particularly after the November presidential elections; therefore, they are trying to make Obama and Romney guarantee some demands in order to eliminate the possibility of any such deal.

2. On the other hand, the United States is not willing to grant any of these concessions to Israel, which means that the they are averse to announcing as explicit and definite as before that they will not accept nuclear enrichment in Iran as they already know that the Iranians are not seeking nuclear weapons and meanwhile they will not give up the nuclear enrichment program under any degree of pressure. The Americans are also extremely reluctant to enter the phase of making military threat against Iran, because they believe that Iran's defence capabilities are more credible than their threats and Tehran may respond these threats in an unexpected way which may disturb and destroy the whole election equation in the US and the regional scene in the Middle East.

This is what has happened behind the scene. Good cop and bad cop game is a fail game now and the Israelis cannot repeat it in a periodical way. One should wait and see what will be the next project?

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[Typhoon]

Iran's news agency portrays satirical Onion story as its own