Militarized Police

[Nonc Hilaire]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

The biggest problem would still be the police unions, though.

[Typhoon]

First read of this thread. I see that it has gotten weird.

A reminder of the forum rules. Be civil or have one's post deleted.

Drinking. In Japan it is common sight to see salarymen/women [office workers] drunk at the end of the evening.
Going drinking with one's colleagues after work is a cultural convention.
Another cultural convention is that one is not held responsible for what one says to one's superior when drunk during such an outing.
It's a form of release, a safety valve.

That's what all addicts say.

That's your unsupported assertion.

However, despite the drinking, the incidence of violent crime, notably homicide, in Japan is among the lowest in the industrialized world.

Maybe, maybe not.

2SA0rXg3Esw

Low by global standards, notably the US. Note that one verbal argument that involves yelling qualifies as abuse in the quoted survey.

Also, it is far lower than in nations where alcohol is forbidden by religion.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... ion-people

The problem of violence lies elsewhere.

Murder in America is in Democrat cities where young gang members slaughter each other with illegal guns. Substances used vary.

Still part of the USA, except perhaps the few city blocks of CHAZ.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

The biggest problem would still be the police unions, though.

Something along those lines is where we should be heading...

but besides the direct union problem there is the more general money problem. It's a solution which would triple budgets. Where's that money coming from?

[Typhoon]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

The biggest problem would still be the police unions, though.

I've read articles wherein the authors argue that the principle of qualified immunity is a problem.

[Simple Minded]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

The biggest problem would still be the police unions, though.

I've read articles wherein the authors argue that the principle of qualified immunity is a problem.

Personal responsibility has all but disappeared from the public discourse. As has the subject of "local cultures" that demands self-destruction as the price of belonging to the group "we." Too tough to sort the wheat from the chaff, and damn little money to be made discussing either subject I suspect. Helping one person takes a personal commitment. Waving a magic wand is easy and gains the puppet master a lot of great PR.

George Floyd was a aberration, not the norm. As a result, he's now the new Martin Luther King Jr.

With such a "widespread problem," it would seem impossible that the MSM gets it wrong more often than not, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tawana Brawley, the Duke LaCross team, yada, yada, yada.

Talk about cultural conditioning, every time I hear about one of the cases of "police abuse" or "police murder," I imagine myself as the victim, and the post humus discussion between my mother and father.

Mom: "Those evil rotten bastards killed my baby boy! They didn't have to do that! I hate those cops!"
Dad: "What the hell was he doing that attracted the attention of the cop in the first place? I told him a thousand time that hanging out with those idiots was gonna get him killed!"

[Mr. Perfect]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

The biggest problem would still be the police unions, though.

Police Unions are not a problem at all.

[Mr. Perfect]

That's your unsupported assertion.

That much drinking is alcoholism/substance abuse. The stereotype of Japanese drinking out of their minds after work with the crew is well known and not envied around the world.

Low by global standards, notably the US. Note that one verbal argument that involves yelling qualifies as abuse in the quoted survey.

There is no way of knowing. These kinds of problems are swept under the rug case by case and at a societal level.

What we do know is where you find alcohol you find domestic violence. Japan is not immune. Australia is especially problematic. There is only one solution.

Still part of the USA, except perhaps the few city blocks of CHAZ.

Democrats don't even like America so I do them a favor and don't count them as such.

[Typhoon]

That's your unsupported assertion.

That much drinking is alcoholism/substance abuse. The stereotype of Japanese drinking out of their minds after work with the crew is well known and not envied around the world.

And yet the society works rather well by any OECD/G7 measure.

Low by global standards, notably the US. Note that one verbal argument that involves yelling qualifies as abuse in the quoted survey.

There is no way of knowing. These kinds of problems are swept under the rug case by case and at a societal level.

What we do know is where you find alcohol you find domestic violence. Japan is not immune. Australia is especially problematic. There is only one solution.

Domestic violence is far far higher in nations wherein alcohol is prohibited.

Still part of the USA, except perhaps the few city blocks of CHAZ.

Democrats don't even like America so I do them a favor and don't count them as such.

Still part of the USA and part of the problem. If/when the union is dissolved, then your point will be valid.

[Mr. Perfect]

And yet the society works rather well by any OECD/G7 measure.

I guess knowing that would help all those battered women and children get through their domestic situation better.

Domestic violence is far far higher in nations wherein alcohol is prohibited.

Citation needed.

Still part of the USA and part of the problem. If/when the union is dissolved, then your point will be valid.

My point is valid right now. We live in a Federal system, where states have large control over their own policies laws and lives.

The results are obvious. Anti American Democrat districts have steadily become hellholes, right wing areas are pleasant and delightsome.

[Typhoon]

And yet the society works rather well by any OECD/G7 measure.

I guess knowing that would help all those battered women and children get through their domestic situation better.

A "When did you stop beating your wife." type assertion.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

In the US we put the Fire Dept. and the Ambulance service together to good effect. I don’t see why public health, social services and policing would not benefit from some similar shared organization based on citizen need.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Baltimore has been trying this under the banner of Crisis Response Teams.

Baltimore hasn't been all that promising; the only thing which has changed is that the social service workers are now carrying guns to the scene.

===============

Places like Baltimore suffer problems from underfunding and a decaying tax base; as the greater metropolitan settlement no longer reflects the city limits.

We could do better in a lot of places by re-incorporating cities and forming county-wide policing units.

------

After a quick search, I wrote about almost five years ago during the Baltimore riots. And nothing's changed because the above is deeply unpopular to the core urban and suburban managers of both political problems.

[noddy]

in my area , with aboriginals, they have a bus driven by aboriginal social workers which is the first thing to be called in.

its then their call if its just regular sillyness which can be dealt with by social workers or if its escalated to police.

the argument is that a young white cop can size up a young white guy and know when he needs to be sent home or roughed up and taken into custody but the reality of history has meant that natural process doesnt happen consistently with aboriginals, not enough trust on either side.

this new approach has meant that step can happen and its changed dynamic quite well - but its all so much easier in a gun free society, Its hard to say really.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Gun ownership and attitudes in this country track pretty well with scot-irish heritage. Could be said to be a cultural marker.

So the question is do we send in a busload of armed Armstrongs for every Scot-Irish domestic dispute?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

in my area , with aboriginals, they have a bus driven by aboriginal social workers which is the first thing to be called in.

its then their call if its just regular sillyness which can be dealt with by social workers or if its escalated to police.

the argument is that a young white cop can size up a young white guy and know when he needs to be sent home or roughed up and taken into custody but the reality of history has meant that natural process doesnt happen consistently with aboriginals, not enough trust on either side.

this new approach has meant that step can happen and its changed dynamic quite well - but its all so much easier in a gun free society, Its hard to say really.

It's a well taken point. It's also a bit easier when the population is a tiny minority (unless I'm getting something mixed up, the aborigines make up a very tiny percentage of the Australian population.)

Can't say I'm super knowledgable with every tribal relation, on and off Native land here- but I've heard of Indian policing forces being used as first respondents for Indian matters on US soil.

[noddy]

in my area , with aboriginals, they have a bus driven by aboriginal social workers which is the first thing to be called in.

its then their call if its just regular sillyness which can be dealt with by social workers or if its escalated to police.

the argument is that a young white cop can size up a young white guy and know when he needs to be sent home or roughed up and taken into custody but the reality of history has meant that natural process doesnt happen consistently with aboriginals, not enough trust on either side.

this new approach has meant that step can happen and its changed dynamic quite well - but its all so much easier in a gun free society, Its hard to say really.

It's a well taken point. It's also a bit easier when the population is a tiny minority (unless I'm getting something mixed up, the aborigines make up a very tiny percentage of the Australian population.)

Can't say I'm super knowledgable with every tribal relation, on and off Native land here- but I've heard of Indian policing forces being used as first respondents for Indian matters on US soil.

they are a minority across the whole population - it does depend on the area as to how much of a minority.

hard to say from the opposite side of the world the news version of America looks more middle east than Europe of late, its impossible for me to gauge anything.

eg: how much is trouble makers creating election troubles for Trump and dissolves the moment he is gone..

still, even as a white guy, the viral videos of your cops are a nightmare of power trippin millitary grade behaviour, Im glad im not dodging them.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

in my area , with aboriginals, they have a bus driven by aboriginal social workers which is the first thing to be called in.

its then their call if its just regular sillyness which can be dealt with by social workers or if its escalated to police.

the argument is that a young white cop can size up a young white guy and know when he needs to be sent home or roughed up and taken into custody but the reality of history has meant that natural process doesnt happen consistently with aboriginals, not enough trust on either side.

this new approach has meant that step can happen and its changed dynamic quite well - but its all so much easier in a gun free society, Its hard to say really.

It's a well taken point. It's also a bit easier when the population is a tiny minority (unless I'm getting something mixed up, the aborigines make up a very tiny percentage of the Australian population.)

Can't say I'm super knowledgable with every tribal relation, on and off Native land here- but I've heard of Indian policing forces being used as first respondents for Indian matters on US soil.

they are a minority across the whole population - it does depend on the area as to how much of a minority.

hard to say from the opposite side of the world the news version of America looks more middle east than Europe of late, its impossible for me to gauge anything.

eg: how much is trouble makers creating election troubles for Trump and dissolves the moment he is gone..

still, even as a white guy, the viral videos of your cops are a nightmare of power trippin millitary grade behaviour, Im glad im not dodging them.

so many ways to tackle this-

I'd start laterally with how much of this stuff tracks with sexual politics



It's unfortunate the well is poisoned, making it hard to discuss.

But white women make up a very noisy segment of these protests. And the same is true with the militarization of the police.

And the same is true with the pride angle (notice all "black lives matter" has transformed into "black trans lives matter"

Then take into account that even the most liberal women will vote eventually Republican if they are married with children...

...and a lot of it starts looking like political party battling over female votes.

edit: I'd not trust the polling data when it comes to abortion, but one thing which is clear is that Millennial and Gen Z are less worked up about it as a political issue than their older cohorts, and the consensus seems to be that it is a muddled issue for them that neither party is going to want to push too hard on. All that energy has to go somewhere.

So exit abortion, and enter every left-leaning white teenage girl/young woman suddenly declaring themselves queer with mental issues and super woke on race against the cis-white men they'll eventually couple with.

[Simple Minded]

Gun ownership and attitudes in this country track pretty well with scot-irish heritage. Could be said to be a cultural marker.

So the question is do we send in a busload of armed Armstrongs for every Scot-Irish domestic dispute?

are you saying Bubba Wallace is no William Wallace?

[Simple Minded]

in my area , with aboriginals, they have a bus driven by aboriginal social workers which is the first thing to be called in.

its then their call if its just regular sillyness which can be dealt with by social workers or if its escalated to police.

the argument is that a young white cop can size up a young white guy and know when he needs to be sent home or roughed up and taken into custody but the reality of history has meant that natural process doesnt happen consistently with aboriginals, not enough trust on either side.

this new approach has meant that step can happen and its changed dynamic quite well - but its all so much easier in a gun free society, Its hard to say really.

It's a well taken point. It's also a bit easier when the population is a tiny minority (unless I'm getting something mixed up, the aborigines make up a very tiny percentage of the Australian population.)

Can't say I'm super knowledgable with every tribal relation, on and off Native land here- but I've heard of Indian policing forces being used as first respondents for Indian matters on US soil.

the other point people rarely address is that every minor incident between any two people gets media magnified into a national pandemic that requires national political intervention, unlimited resources, and media scrutiny.

[Simple Minded]

they are a minority across the whole population - it does depend on the area as to how much of a minority.

hard to say from the opposite side of the world the news version of America looks more middle east than Europe of late, its impossible for me to gauge anything.

eg: how much is trouble makers creating election troubles for Trump and dissolves the moment he is gone..

still, even as a white guy, the viral videos of your cops are a nightmare of power trippin millitary grade behaviour, Im glad im not dodging them.

well said. neither you nor I live in the America that the MSM inhabits and focuses upon.

The rational black people and spokespersons are legion. The MSM chooses to give bandwidth to the wack jobs.

Chris Rock's video "How not to get your ass kicked by the Police" should be widely distributed thru out the country via public education starting in the 3rd grade. Snowflakes of every color would benefit. Oddly enough, pretty much everyone I know who has not been a victim of police violence has followed this formula instinctively. Even before Chris came out with the video.

There only reason why an unarmed person who is not high on drugs would challenged a person who is armed, is they don't think the armed person will use their weapon.

uj0mtxXEGE8

[Simple Minded]

so many ways to tackle this-

I'd start laterally with how much of this stuff tracks with sexual politics



It's unfortunate the well is poisoned, making it hard to discuss.

But white women make up a very noisy segment of these protests. And the same is true with the militarization of the police.

And the same is true with the pride angle (notice all "black lives matter" has transformed into "black trans lives matter"

Then take into account that even the most liberal women will vote eventually Republican if they are married with children...

...and a lot of it starts looking like political party battling over female votes.

edit: I'd not trust the polling data when it comes to abortion, but one thing which is clear is that Millennial and Gen Z are less worked up about it as a political issue than their older cohorts, and the consensus seems to be that it is a muddled issue for them that neither party is going to want to push too hard on. All that energy has to go somewhere.

So exit abortion, and enter every left-leaning white teenage girl/young woman suddenly declaring themselves queer with mental issues and super woke on race against the cis-white men they'll eventually couple with.

that's the part I love to watch. Group A claims solidarity to gain power. Once attaining power Group A fragments in Groups A.1, a, a.a, a.b, A.b, B.A, etc. All of which now claim oppression at the hands of Group A. Group A now views the fledgling sub-groups as threats to their power.

Dems and Repubs splitting into OWS and the Tea Party are excellent examples. The old school can claim to support the new school but only until the new schools looks like it might be able to actually stand on it's own two feet and walk. Then they have to be crushed.

Harnessing the power of the new/young is tough when you are old/old.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I was thinking all the arguments for drug legalization are a lot closer to the successful campaign against status laws a generation later, than prohibition. Prohibition gets tossed in there as a bit of sleight-of-hand propaganda because it is something we all are supposed to point-and-laugh at at this point.
Never-mind that abolition, women's rights and alcohol prohibition were intimately connected its passing as an amendment was accidental [and famously underfunded]- a last gasp of a political movement in a world which had moved away from them.
That isn't an argument for or against it but the premises behind it live on more with every zany health fad than the indigestion or distribution of intoxicants.

The status laws are more interesting because we see how they played out.

Being a drunkard (and not just drunk) used to be against the law, and those laws were overturned as targeting the poor, vagrants and blacks disproportionately in a cycle where they would be picked up, thrown in jail for a few weeks, released, picked up again, thrown back in jail, released....

and the response was to formulate public intoxication laws which regulate all sorts of scenarios in a way more intrusive way than before; with the argument being that is still not fairly applied.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The incident in Atlanta started over public intoxication laws preventing the city authorities from letting him sleep it off, whether in his car or in a cell for the night. Complicating the matter of course is that he was operating that vehicle in that state and the recognition that under the old way of doing things, he would've just as likely been punished anyway.

I don't know what's better, arbitrary enforcement or bureaucratic enforcement. In both incidences, people will continue to get rolled over.

[Simple Minded]

The incident in Atlanta started over public intoxication laws preventing the city authorities from letting him sleep it off, whether in his car or in a cell for the night. Complicating the matter of course is that he was operating that vehicle in that state and the recognition that under the old way of doing things, he would've just as likely been punished anyway.

I don't know what's better, arbitrary enforcement or bureaucratic enforcement. In both incidences, people will continue to get rolled over.

the more fascinating aspect of the current zeitgeist is the absolute taboo of mentioning that "the perp" got himself shot only due to his personal choice of resisting arrest. in the old days, this would have been so obvious, so "common sense" that a lot of the public's response to this story would have had noting to do with race, but with a shrug of the shoulders, the reaction would have been "That dumb ass never should have resisted arrest, taken the cops taser, and fired it at the cop! Why would that dumb ass think that this would end well for him? Damn shame, but he f**ked up!"

But the result of decades of priming the public with every stupid act of an individual is somehow an indictment of our evil society, is that few dare to even mention that the reason the dude is dead is because he acted stupidly.

BTW, NY state laws are similar. Get drunk and decide to sleep it off in your car, and you will get arrested for driving under the influence even if the car is parked and the engine is not running. You might beat the rap if you give your keys to someone to keep away from you, but you will still get arrested, go to jail, and need a lawyer.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

BTW, NY state laws are similar. Get drunk and decide to sleep it off in your car, and you will get arrested for driving under the influence even if the car is parked and the engine is not running. You might beat the rap if you give your keys to someone to keep away from you, but you will still get arrested, go to jail, and need a lawyer.

And thousands of dollars, maybe tens of thousands at this point.

People don't think this will happen to their favorite drugs are in for the surprise of a lifetime.

I don't know what's better or worse, either way makes some people happy and others dissatisfied.

[Nonc Hilaire]