500 years ago Friday Mexico fell to the Spanish

[Doc]

NP8okBQ08HY

During the 100 years following the Fall of Mexico City the native population of Central America was reduced by 90%

[Zack Morris]

Wow, Doc is pushing Critical Race Theory! Never thought I'd live to see the day. Excited for uncomfortable historical truths about European colonialism to be thoroughly explored in American high school classrooms.

[Doc]

Wow, Doc is pushing Critical Race Theory! Never thought I'd live to see the day. Excited for uncomfortable historical truths about European colonialism to be thoroughly explored in American high school classrooms.

Hardly. I just find it ironic that Guns, germs and steel are still where it is at 500 years later. But on a much larger scale...

[Apollonius]

Wow, Doc is pushing Critical Race Theory! Never thought I'd live to see the day. Excited for uncomfortable historical truths about European colonialism to be thoroughly explored in American high school classrooms.

What makes you think this stuff hasn't been taught for sixty years and more?

What seems not to have ben taught is how much worse Native American societies were than those that conquered them.


I just finished reading History of the Indian Tribes of North America by Thomas McKenney & James Hall, a reprint of the original published in 3 volumes from 1837-1841, so there were lots of Americans who were champagning the cause of indigenous peoples even two hundred years ago. The books are in sympathy with Natives and more than actually quite biased towards them. For example, even though the emphasis is entirely on Indians living in what is now the U.S., there is a section devoted to describing the Mexicans. Glowing descriptions of their cities. No mention at all of their vast slave population, the low status of women, the repressive attitudes towards deviant sexualities, and their periodic famines, much less a line or two about the tens of thousands of human sacrifices.

You're probably aware of the fact (or should be) that it was largely due to Cortes' Indian allies that he managed to defeat the Aztecs and that many of them were rewarded with lands and serfs just like the conquistadors.

McKenney & Hall have some harsh words for some of the rustic borderers and corrupt Indian Agents. But he also forthrightly names the indigenous peoples of America as savages. By that time in history I think the present meaning of the word had been fully developed since we read the authors' descriptions of specific activities that most of us would regard as savage today, like the treatment of defeated villages and war captives. They mention shamans too. They call them 'jugglers', I think because of the way they juggle words and fool everyone. Based on the proportion of harm they did the authors would say that if you're looking for direction in spiritual matters, Christianity is infinitely superior.

And this is why we can be happy that Cortes conquered Mexcio.

[Doc]

Wow, Doc is pushing Critical Race Theory! Never thought I'd live to see the day. Excited for uncomfortable historical truths about European colonialism to be thoroughly explored in American high school classrooms.

What makes you think this stuff hasn't been taught for sixty years and more?

What seems not to have ben taught is how much worse Native American societies were than those that conquered them.


I just finished reading History of the Indian Tribes of North America by Thomas McKenney & James Hall, a reprint of the original published in 3 volumes from 1837-1841, so there were lots of Americans who were champagning the cause of indigenous peoples even two hundred years ago. The books are in sympathy with Natives and more than actually quite biased towards them. For example, even though the emphasis is entirely on Indians living in what is now the U.S., there is a section devoted to describing the Mexicans. Glowing descriptions of their cities. No mention at all of their vast slave population, the low status of women, the repressive attitudes towards deviant sexualities, and their periodic famines, much less a line or two about the tens of thousands of human sacrifices.

You're probably aware of the fact (or should be) that it was largely due to Cortes' Indian allies that he managed to defeat the Aztecs and that many of them were rewarded with lands and serfs just like the conquistadors.

McKenney & Hall have some harsh words for some of the rustic borderers and corrupt Indian Agents. But he also forthrightly names the indigenous peoples of America as savages. By that time in history I think the present meaning of the word had been fully developed since we read the authors' descriptions of specific activities that most of us would regard as savage today, like the treatment of defeated villages and war captives. They mention shamans too. They call them 'jugglers', I think because of the way they juggle words and fool everyone. Based on the proportion of harm they did the authors would say that if you're looking for direction in spiritual matters, Christianity is infinitely superior.

And this is why we can be happy that Cortes conquered Mexcio.

Two points:

The Aztec were horrified that Cortes and the Spanish killed people by burning them to death.

When the Spanish saw the pyramids of Guadalajara they asked the Aztec who build them. The Aztecs answered "The Gods built them" Then the Spanish laughed and said it was clear that they were built by giants.

Germs, Guns, and Steel were the difference between the Spanish and the Aztecs. The Spanish weren't so superior, and neither are the American Baizuo.

[Mr. Perfect]

What makes you think this stuff hasn't been taught for sixty years and more?

Lol it's always been obvious Zack was not paying attention in school, or any other time

[Nonc Hilaire]

The Mexicans did give the Spanish tequila, guacamóle and the verb chingar.