A far rightist essayist commits suicide in Notre Dame

[Alexis]

French far rightist essayist commits a spectacular suicide in Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris (link in French)

The historian Dominique Venner committed suicide today close to the autel in Paris main Cathedral, leaving one letter whose content is not yet public.

On his blog today, the atheist/Pagan essayist, probably the foremost intellectual caution of the identitarist far right (much more extreme than the Front National ever has been even in the past), left a text which with hindsight clearly points to his suicide.

Extracts of this text (my translation):

One must understand that France falling in the hands of Islamists is a probability. For the last 40 years, politicians and governments of all stripes (except the FN), along with business and the Church, have actively worked to that end, accelerating by all means Afro-Maghrebi immigration.

(...) « Great population replacement » in France and in Europe (which prophetic writers warned against) is a catastrophic danger for the future.

Kind street demonstrations won't be enough to prevent it. A real « intellectual and moral reform » (is necessary to conquer back) identity memory of France and Europe, and the need for such reform is not yet clearly perceived.

New, spectacular and symbolic actions will be necessary to arise (the sleepy ones) and awake memory of our origins.
We are entering a time when words have to be authentified by deeds.

(As Heidegger said), the essence of man is in his existence and not in « another world ». Here and now is our fate decided, up the last second. And that last second is just as important as all the rest of our life (taken together) That's why one should be oneself up to the last time. It's by deciding alone, in really willing one's fate, that one winns over the Nothing. No escape to that demand, for we have that life only when we have to either fully be ourselves, or to be nothing.

His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" which likens him to Mishima.

This seems to be the first suicide which ever took place inside Notre Dame.

I am Christian.
I hail from the a-ethnic Republican understanding of the French revolution and of French values.
I have read Venner as a deep and thought-provoking historian from an intellectual tradition which I feel very far from.

Yet one has to salute the man of conviction who validates by his death the sincerity of his life and of his thrive for what he perceived to be the Common Good.
May God forgive his sins and welcome him.

[noddy]

i cant but see it as a sign of giving up to the inevitability of the things he fears so cant respect it or give it validation.

[Ibrahim]

The story in English:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... ZwwbT5HfnE

His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" which likens him to Mishima.

This is actually a good comparison. Like Mishima, this guy was a weird primitivist who killed himself in a pointless fit of pique. Major points for only killing himself though, not massacring 70 children over his bizarre nativism.

Yet one has to salute the man of conviction who validates by his death the sincerity of his life and of his thrive for what he perceived to be the Common Good.

Catholic Christian (the most common in France) doctrine disagrees on this point.

[Simple Minded]

The story in English:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... ZwwbT5HfnE

His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" which likens him to Mishima.

This is actually a good comparison. Like Mishima, this guy was a weird primitivist who killed himself in a pointless fit of pique. Major points for only killing himself though, not massacring 70 children over his bizarre nativism.

Amen, kudos to him for taking voting with your feet to the existential level and not going Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, McVey, Islamist, Rwandan, Mao, etc.

Him & Clara Galt are my choice for neighbors rather than those mentioned above.

Gotta respect someone who knows how to fix a internal problem by his lonesome rather than attempt to impose his world view on others!

The world needs more good examples like him.

[Marcus]

. . His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" . .

Not from here . . .

Heaven help the poor guy . . whatever his did in his own mind . . all I see is a grand act of masturbation.

[Enki]

If he's Catholic then he's going to Hell according to their doctrine.

[Ibrahim]

If he's Catholic then he's going to Hell according to their doctrine.

%100, but I think the article said that this guy was some kind of self-identified "pagan." Though that can also mean a strain of French super-nationalists who get weepy over Vercingetorix (who is admittedly cool) rather than actually practicing a reconstructed pre-Christian religion.

[Torchwood]

Sorry, I have neither time nor respect for people who choose symbolic "martyrdom". It's a cop out. One of the more baleful legacies of early Christianity.

[Mr. Perfect]

Unlike the Muslims at least he didn't take people with him.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


A wonder, in a land that Dominique Strauss-Kahn would have been now "Président de la République" had he paid the maid what she was asking, in a country that, quite openly, chief justice and head of police and rank and file of government meet regularly for sex orgy with lovely hookers .. in such a civilization and culture .. somebody kills himself for homosexual marriage .. that is what's strange


.

[monster_gardener]

If he's Catholic then he's going to Hell according to their doctrine.

%100, but I think the article said that this guy was some kind of self-identified "pagan." Though that can also mean a strain of French super-nationalists who get weepy over Vercingetorix (who is admittedly cool) rather than actually practicing a reconstructed pre-Christian religion.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Somebody who has the Gaul to be cooler than Vercingetorix




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_%28character%29

[Alexis]

His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" which likens him to Mishima.

This is actually a good comparison. Like Mishima, this guy was a weird primitivist who killed himself in a pointless fit of pique. Major points for only killing himself though, not massacring 70 children over his bizarre nativism.

Implied comparison with Breivik has a degree of validity to be sure. Ideologies of Venner and of Breivik have some common points, with major difference about the means...

Yet one has to salute the man of conviction who validates by his death the sincerity of his life and of his thrive for what he perceived to be the Common Good.

Catholic Christian (the most common in France) doctrine disagrees on this point.

Indeed, just like all brands of Christianism. And Judaism, and Islam, and other monotheistic religions...

I do not approve Venner's suicide, nor do I approve his anti-Christianism(1), his ethnicism(2) and his Europeanism(3).

He died the way ancient Romans died, a neo-Pagan stoician death. No matter how much I disapprove, I have to admire the courage of the man, even misguided. A neo-Pagan Frenchman may be further from me than a Muslim or Jewish Frenchman, but that is no reason not to respect the one who sincerely and courageaously strives for what he perceives to be the common interest.


(1) as in: "Christianism is a universalist religion, while only religions particular to a given people are acceptable the likes of Hinduism, Shinto or ancient European pagan gods"
(2) as in: "The basis of identity is race, civilizations are in depth expressions of the races that produced them"
(3) as in: "Europe should overcome individual nations"

[Alexis]

a land that Dominique Strauss-Kahn would have been now "Président de la République" had he paid the maid what she was asking, in a country that, quite openly, chief justice and head of police and rank and file of government meet regularly for sex orgy with lovely hookers .. in such a civilization and culture ..

Cheap tactic, ALI. You know better than to disparage a whole country and civilization because of a couple individual failings.
Well... at least, you should know better

somebody kills himself for homosexual marriage .. that is what's strange

Actually Venner's motives were quite different. He imagined he could through his suicide protest and warn against "(everything) that destroy the foundations of our identity" and "the crime aiming at replacement of our populations" in front of "immense dangers for my French and European fatherland". He precised that he "(didn't) wait for anything beyond life, except survival of my race and my spirit". And he pointed "metaphysics of the unlimited" as the source of all contemporary evils (whatever he meant by that)
(source: the letter that he left, link in French)

[Enki]

Sorry, I have neither time nor respect for people who choose symbolic "martyrdom". It's a cop out. One of the more baleful legacies of early Christianity.

I thought about faking a suicide once to make a political point. But if you're not putting 'fake' in front of suicide, then I want no part of it.

[Alexis]

But if you're not putting 'fake' in front of suicide, then I want no part of it.

I agree suicide should never be an option, with two exceptions which are real, if rare:

- Suicide to protect other innocent lives. A number of captured French resistance members committed suicide, fearing they could not resist systematic torture and would give the names of comrades

- Suicide for reason of honour (in a very specific sense of "honour") I know of one single example, but a striking one.
The most famous French resistant Jean Moulin committed a failed suicide attempt June 1940 as the only sensible option out of the following conundrum: being a local administrative leader, he was ordered by Germans to sign a testimony which falsely attributed to Black French troops a civilian slaughter in reality committed by German troops. Penalty for failing to sign would have been killing of civilian hostages, in classical Third Reich "motivation" tactics toward collaboration.
Jean Moulin cut his throat open, barely survived, and avoided both dishonourable lie and slaughter of hostages by Germans

Now choosing suicide in such situations requires... real courage!

[Ibrahim]

I don't think its really a question of suicide being "brave" or "cowardly" so much as the fact that this guy decided to theatrically commit suicide because he hated immigrants so much. This guy is basically Anders Breivik, except he killed himself instead of 70 children. So its better, but hardly good.

It's certainly nothing like the Jean Moulin example, which I think we can all agree upon.

[Ibrahim]

His editor commented that this suicide has a "very powerful force" which likens him to Mishima.

This is actually a good comparison. Like Mishima, this guy was a weird primitivist who killed himself in a pointless fit of pique. Major points for only killing himself though, not massacring 70 children over his bizarre nativism.

Implied comparison with Breivik has a degree of validity to be sure. Ideologies of Venner and of Breivik have some common points, with major difference about the means...

I would say their ideology was almost exactly the same, but the difference in their response is certainly massive.

Yet one has to salute the man of conviction who validates by his death the sincerity of his life and of his thrive for what he perceived to be the Common Good.

Catholic Christian (the most common in France) doctrine disagrees on this point.

Indeed, just like all brands of Christianism. And Judaism, and Islam, and other monotheistic religions...

I do not approve Venner's suicide, nor do I approve his anti-Christianism(1), his ethnicism(2) and his Europeanism(3).

He died the way ancient Romans died, a neo-Pagan stoician death. No matter how much I disapprove, I have to admire the courage of the man, even misguided. A neo-Pagan Frenchman may be further from me than a Muslim or Jewish Frenchman, but that is no reason not to respect the one who sincerely and courageaously strives for what he perceives to be the common interest.

Romans used to commit suicide at home, in private, so their family could inherit their estate rather than it passing to the emperor. This man chose a very theatrical method, in a successful bid to draw some temporary headlines and attention to his marginal and immoral cause. Insofar as it looks good it looks good by comparison only. Its better than killing other people like Breivik, its probably also better than festering on some racist website or talk radio show for years, spreading propaganda. But all that leaves us with is that the guy could have been an even bigger piece of garbage, not that he's admirable.

But again, the story is this: the man was a racist and nativist, and he hated brown Muslim immigrants so much that he shot himself in the head.

[Alexis]

I should add that I am driven to marvel at the political diversity of my own country.

What other nation sports a Presidential candidate raising high the red banneer of the Proletariat, along with a neo-Pagan Europeist ethnicist intellectual like Venner, along with obstinate demonstrations against same-sex "marriage" while e.g. in a country like Spain it became law without a lot of fuss in spite of the Church being more powerful in Spain than it is in France?

[Alexis]

It's certainly nothing like the Jean Moulin example, which I think we can all agree upon.

Amen to that!

Romans used to commit suicide at home, in private, so their family could inherit their estate rather than it passing to the emperor. This man chose a very theatrical method, in a successful bid to draw some temporary headlines and attention to his marginal and immoral cause.
(...)
But again, the story is this: the man was a racist and nativist, and he hated brown Muslim immigrants so much that he shot himself in the head.

I was thinking more of such theatrical / political suicides as Seneca's or Cato the Younger's.
Not necessarily that Venner equaled these examples... but it seems to have been in his mind to use suicide as they used theirs.

The question about hatred of people of other colours is more complex. The man is a notable historian, and nothing in his writings that I know of point to hatred.

Everything however points to the wrong and dangerous idea that it's not a civilization and a polity that makes the identity and unity of a country, but a racial identity. The fact that Venner was never spotted to my knowledge bringing that idea to the next-in-line stage of hating people with different backgrounds in my view saves his honour, and makes his case of wrongheadedness a tragedy.

This doesn't change the fact that the idea of racially-based identity is a very dangerous error.

[Ibrahim]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -dame.html

A veteran of French neofascist groups, Venner was a longtime militant of the far right who had gradually eased into a new life as a respected historian, known for his expertise on weapons and hunting. But his suicide manifesto, as well as a blog post he published earlier that morning, took him directly back to the dark themes that drove his life: the “great replacement of the people of France” and the prospect of France “falling into the hands of Islamists.” He praised an upcoming protest of France’s new law legalizing gay marriage, which he called “detestable.”

His distaste for "Islamists," immigrants, and homosexuals was such that he despaired at the thought of them becoming part of French culture or national identity. I don't see how that can be construed as anything other than hatred.

Having read his manifesto in translation, his act also appears to have been a failure:

However, in the evening of my life, facing immense dangers to my French and European homeland, I feel the duty to act as long as I still have strength. I believe it necessary to sacrifice myself to break the lethargy that plagues us. I give up what life remains to me in order to protest and to found. I chose a highly symbolic place, the Cathedral of Notre Dame de Paris, which I respect and admire: she was built by the genius of my ancestors on the site of cults still more ancient, recalling our immemorial origins.

Nothing is changed by his act, no lethargy broken, and the "threats" he protested are the legal right of homosexuals to marry, and the presence of Arabs and other immigrants as equal citizens of France. Can you imagine a France where his beliefs were implemented? Massive persecution and ethnic cleansing were his ideas of a better country.

[Alexis]

Can you imagine a France where his beliefs were implemented? Massive persecution and ethnic cleansing were his ideas of a better country.

Massive expulsion of French citizens on futile grounds of skin colour certainly was among his ideas. And I shudder at the thought.

I tend to like political diversity, even including the maybe 1% of French people who would want a Communist dictatorship, or the maybe 1% who would want an Islamist theocracy, or the maybe 1% who would want an ethnic version of France. I like to see a countryman holding Stalinist, Ethnicist or Islamist views as a brother who lost himself, rather than as a bastard, and I personnally put the limit for bastard-ness only at actual violence the likes of Mohamed Merah or Anders Breivik.

But this is me. Obviously, you are entitled to think this is too sentimental, if you so choose

And of course, I would be much less sanguine if any of these extreme views gathered 5 or 10% of the population rather than 1% or lesser.

[Ibrahim]

I've long said that the extremist fringe be allowed to say whatever they want. Mocked mercilessly, yes. Ruthlessly prosecuted when they try and put their ideology into action, yes. But allowed to exist under free speech protections, sure. Now, am I then going to judge people based on what they say? Again, yes. Its less harmful than action but it still tells you something about the person.

Venner's career isn't problematic, I just take issue with finding anything positive about it or his suicide in and of itself. As I said before, the best you can say is that he didn't murder any other people. But we can't hand out medals for that. I, like most other people, manage to not murder people every day.