Pentagon Plans to Shrink Army to Pre-World War II Level

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Chuck Hagel plans to shrink the United States Army to its smallest force since before the World War II

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. . takes into account the fiscal reality of government austerity and the political reality of a president who pledged to end two costly and exhausting land wars. A result, the officials argue, will be a military capable of defeating any adversary, but too small for protracted foreign occupations.

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wise move


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[Doc]

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Chuck Hagel plans to shrink the United States Army to its smallest force since before the World War II

.

. . takes into account the fiscal reality of government austerity and the political reality of a president who pledged to end two costly and exhausting land wars. A result, the officials argue, will be a military capable of defeating any adversary, but too small for protracted foreign occupations.

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wise move
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Really? Right after 911 it was found that the US did not have enough combat troops. Hagel wants to have less troops than right before 911 which was the low point since before WWII.

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Right after 911 it was found that the US did not have enough combat troops.

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Combat troops to fight whom ? ? ?

to fight guys without shoes with 1940 rifles ? ? ?

not enough troops for "Abu Ghoreib" ? ? ?

Come on, Doc, come on

America

again

won all battles in Iraq and Afghanistan

but

lost both wars

winning wars not same as killing as many as possible

wars are only won if you win the goodwill of the population

Can an American go freely shopping anywhere in Iraq or Afghanistan ? ? ?

NO

Can an American securely backpack hitch-hack in Iran

Yes


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[Doc]

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Right after 911 it was found that the US did not have enough combat troops.

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Combat troops to fight whom ? ? ?

to fight guys without shoes with 1940 rifles ? ? ?

Last time I check Al Qeada and the Taliban had better weapons the the Iranian Army. The Iranian militias just have clubs to beat unarmed civilians with

not enough troops for "Abu Ghoreib" ? ? ?

Come on, Doc, come on

America

again

won all battles in Iraq and Afghanistan

but

lost both wars

winning wars not same as killing as many as possible

wars are only won if you win the goodwill of the population

Can an American go freely shopping anywhere in Iraq or Afghanistan ? ? ?

NO

Can an American securely backpack hitch-hack in Iran

Yes


.

The US won in Iraq. The situation there is up to the Iraqis to sort out and no one else. So when Is Iran going to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan?

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I thought you were going to stop putting in spaces and empty lines before the last period AZ. It is kind of annoying to make a post in reply to you and then find out the quotes are screwed up because of
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Well almost end of quote




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[Heracleum Persicum]

Last time I check Al Qeada and the Taliban had better weapons than the Iranian Army.

Tell this to BiBi .. he sayin and sayin Iran the most dangerous nation on earth at the same time he raining "white Phosphorous" on Pali children in school (spare you the pics)

Come on, Doc, what do you need so many battalions for ? ? ? to fight whom ? ? you will not fight Chinese, neither Russians .. and you lost Iraq and Afghan war dispite all the battalions

Obama doing the right thing bringing the boys home and closing the military bases

Military power "American style" has become "impotent" .. ASYMMETRIC is the name of the game

and .. name of the game is not killing but winning the hearts and minds

So when Is Iran going to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan ?

Doc, look at the map below

Greater Iran.gif (57.59 KiB) Viewed 455 times

Mesopotamia and Afghan were part of "Greater Persia" when America was under mile high ice

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[Zack Morris]

Really? Right after 911 it was found that the US did not have enough combat troops.

Do you believe everything the Pentagon says?

Hagel wants to have less troops than right before 911 which was the low point since before WWII.

[/quote]

Good. Now you can't as easily criticize the Obama administration for being militaristic. Not only have they failed to start any protracted conflicts abroad, they are also trying to drastically shrink the military, the size of which was heralded by right wingers as proof of Obama's hypocrisy (the time it takes to implement such change being conveniently ignored, of course).

[Doc]

Really? Right after 911 it was found that the US did not have enough combat troops.

Do you believe everything the Pentagon says?

Do you disbelieve everything the Pentagon says? This was very widely reported. THe US was short at least one combat brigade and there were not enough armored Humvees to go around.

Hagel wants to have less troops than right before 911 which was the low point since before WWII.

Good. Now you can't as easily criticize the Obama administration for being militaristic. Not only have they failed to start any protracted conflicts abroad, [/quote] Yemen, Libya,Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, and countless places unknown because the most transparent administration ever hasn't bother to tell anyone.

they are also trying to drastically shrink the military, the size of which was heralded by right wingers as proof of Obama's hypocrisy (the time it takes to implement such change being conveniently ignored, of course).

Sure.... They say there is a boogie man under your bed as well...

[Heracleum Persicum]

In retrospect, America's military involvement post WW2 has done more harm than good

Time for "boots on the ground" gone

Even if military action needed, drones, cruise missiles, Subs and and can do the job

In a sense, it is now a Checkmate in military adventurism .. no move anymore possible without fallin in another disaster making things worst than B4

[Hoosiernorm]

why invade when you can kill people remotely?

[Zack Morris]

Do you disbelieve everything the Pentagon says? This was very widely reported. THe US was short at least one combat brigade and there were not enough armored Humvees to go around.

What did they need another combat brigade for? Even prior to 2001, the Us military was vastly larger, more capable, and globally active than most of the rest of the world's armed forces combined. I can't believe you fall for such obvious scams. They just needed the money to purchase more of their thousand-dollar toilets.

Yemen, Libya,Pakistan, Sudan, Syria, and countless places unknown because the most transparent administration ever hasn't bother to tell anyone.

In light of Iraq and Afghanistan, how can a few bombs dropped here and there possibly qualify as a "protracted" conflict? Libya is over, Dubya inserted us into Pakistan, nothing is happening in Sudan, and our involvement in Syria is so negligible that the President's political opponents have been calling for more decisive involvement.

[monster_gardener]

why invade when you can kill people remotely?

Thank You Very MUCH for your post, Hoosiernorm.

I was wondering similarly..... If that was the Administration's plan when I heard about this.....

To the tune of "Send in the Klowns/Drones"......

And "Killer Queen"......

After all obama, the Arrogant Lying Son of a Bitch Eating Killer Klown Socialist Drone Creature from the Chicago Lagoon has bragged about being good at killing people with drones.........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/0 ... 08815.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ng-drones/

5os4NFeKFFs

BAf2S6ij2gk

[monster_gardener]

In retrospect, America's military involvement post WW2 has done more harm than good

Time for "boots on the ground" gone

Even if military action needed, drones, cruise missiles, Subs and and can do the job

In a sense, it is now a Checkmate in military adventurism .. no move anymore possible without fallin in another disaster making things worst than B4

Thank You Very Much for your Post, Azari.

In retrospect, America's military involvement post WW2 has done more harm than good

Wondering what would have happened if US had just brought the Boyz home right after defeating the Axis powers...

Let's say maybe allow a few months to destroy Axis weapons and then just go home with no NATO or troops in Japan or later Korea.......

And no pressure on the Russians to pull out of Iran........

In the aftermath of the occupation of Iran, those Allied forces agreed to withdraw from Iran within six months after the cessation of hostilities. However, when this deadline came in early 1946, the Soviets, under Joseph Stalin, remained in Iran and local pro-Soviet Iranians proclaimed a separatist People's Republic of Azerbaijan.[3]

In late 1945, in addition to the People's Republic of Azerbaijan, the Republic of Mahabad also came into existence. Soon, the alliance of the Kurdish and People's Azerbaijani forces, supported in arms and training by the Soviet Union, engaged in fighting with Iranian forces,[1] resulting in a total of 2,000 casualties. Negotiation by Iranian premier Ahmad Qavam and diplomatic pressure on the Soviets by the United States eventually led to Soviet withdrawal. The crisis is seen as one of the early conflicts in the growing Cold War at the time.

Although the occupation of Iran was scheduled to end after the war at the Potsdam Conference following Germany’s surrender, Stalin objected to Churchill’s proposal for an early allied withdrawal from Iran ahead of the agreed-upon schedule set at the Teheran Conference.*[5] Following VJ Day in September 1945, first the US and then the UK withdrew their forces within the treaty-stipulated period. The Soviets not only violated the March 2 withdrawal deadline; in that time they had expanded their military presence southward. By mid-December 1945, with the use of troops and secret police, they had set up two pro-Soviet "People's Democratic Republics" within Iranian territory,[4] the Azerbaijan People's Republic headed by Sayyid Jafar Pishevari and the Kurdish Republic of Mahabad under President Pesheva Qazi Muhammad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_crisis_of_1946

Wondering If the Russian Bears would have decided to divide Iran into lots of little People's Democratic
Republics of every nationality & tribe in Iran.....


* Wow! Look at that! That alleged Monster Churchill & the Brits trying to get the Iranian occupation ended early...

[Heracleum Persicum]

In retrospect, America's military involvement post WW2 has done more harm than good

Wondering what would have happened if US had just brought the Boyz home right after defeating the Axis powers...

Let's say maybe allow a few months to destroy Axis weapons and then just go home with no NATO or troops in Japan or later Korea.......

Good question

yes, what would have happened ? ? ?

Is world now a better place "FOR ALL" because of American military might of post WW2 ? ? ?

Communism was a "failed" philosophy that would have collapsed much sooner if West had not elevated it to what it became .. argument could be made America used communism excuse for "business" of military industrial complex and enslavement of billions of South America, Africa, Middle East and South East Asia, China and even India

Argument could be made if America had retreated to America and let chips fall where they would, MAO of China would have not to get Stalin's help, anti (French) colonial Vietnam would have not become communist, East Europe would have revolted much sooner, USSR would have fallen by the people

So, jury still out whether American military might of post WW2 lead to a better world, whether world a better place now

One thing for sure, Middle East without American involvement would have been much better place .. there would be no Saudi, no those monkeys in Persian Golf calling themselves Kings and Amirs and Sheiks, no Saddam, no Shah and Khomeini but Mossadegh, no Taliban and no Ossama .. and .. Israel would be now a refuge for world Jews running away from you guys

Re, USSR getting out of Iran at the end of WW2 .. partition of "neutral Iran", destroying Iran's "rail road" and infrastructure, widespread famine and and, was not a "Russian only" game, but mainly American and British therefore pushing USSR out of Iran was American responsibility and a closing chapter of WW2 .. it is not clear whether Stalin left Iran because of fearing America, rather he wrote explaining to Iranian communist leaders that Russia had too much other places to do, overstretched.

Nobody, neither Stalin nor (now) American Obama has the power to divide Iran .. nobody .. America, last 35 yrs, tried this many times, many other last 3000 yrs tried and failed .. not that Iranian love the mad mullahs, they don't, but they backing the mad mullahs despite all hardship, all that for a reason.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Obama told Karzai in a phone call on Tuesday that he had instructed the Pentagon to begin planning for a complete withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan by the end of the year.

[monster_gardener]

In retrospect, America's military involvement post WW2 has done more harm than good

Wondering what would have happened if US had just brought the Boyz home right after defeating the Axis powers...

Let's say maybe allow a few months to destroy Axis weapons and then just go home with no NATO or troops in Japan or later Korea.......

Good question

yes, what would have happened ? ? ?

Is world now a better place "FOR ALL" because of American military might of post WW2 ? ? ?

Communism was a "failed" philosophy that would have collapsed much sooner if West had not elevated it to what it became .. argument could be made America used communism excuse for "business" of military industrial complex and enslavement of billions of South America, Africa, Middle East and South East Asia, China and even India

Argument could be made if America had retreated to America and let chips fall where they would, MAO of China would have not to get Stalin's help, anti (French) colonial Vietnam would have not become communist, East Europe would have revolted much sooner, USSR would have fallen by the people

So, jury still out whether American military might of post WW2 lead to a better world, whether world a better place now

One thing for sure, Middle East without American involvement would have been much better place .. there would be no Saudi, no those monkeys in Persian Golf calling themselves Kings and Amirs and Sheiks, no Saddam, no Shah and Khomeini but Mossadegh, no Taliban and no Ossama .. and .. Israel would be now a refuge for world Jews running away from you guys

Re, USSR getting out of Iran at the end of WW2 .. partition of "neutral Iran", destroying Iran's "rail road" and infrastructure, widespread famine and and, was not a "Russian only" game, but mainly American and British therefore pushing USSR out of Iran was American responsibility and a closing chapter of WW2 .. it is not clear whether Stalin left Iran because of fearing America, rather he wrote explaining to Iranian communist leaders that Russia had too much other places to do, overstretched.

Nobody, neither Stalin nor (now) American Obama has the power to divide Iran .. nobody .. America, last 35 yrs, tried this many times, many other last 3000 yrs tried and failed .. not that Iranian love the mad mullahs, they don't, but they backing the mad mullahs despite all hardship, all that for a reason.

Thank You Very MUCH for your intriguing post & kind words, Azari.

Is world now a better place "FOR ALL" because of American military might of post WW2 ? ? ?

IMO Yes.........

And let's not forget that it was not just American might and will.......

Remembering that the Brits and others sometimes had to push when American idealists like FDR & Carter got too gullible or otherworldly..........

Remembering the purpose of NATO per the Brits......

To Keep the Russians OUT
To Keep the Americans IN*
To Keep the Germans DOWN...

Communism was a "failed" philosophy that would have collapsed much sooner if West had not elevated it to what it became .

I not sure of that at all....

The Soviet Union was also the Russian Empire..... Its defeat was by no means assured as it was....

I remember the bad old days under Jimmy Carter when it seemed that the Soviets had a pretty fair chance to win....

When there was talk of the Euroz of Europe being Finlandized.... Officially independent but really dominated and paying tribute through trade......

Imagine a world without Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher & Pope John Paul II supporting Lech Walesa & Solidarity in Poland among other things.....

Maybe we have just delayed it a bit.......

We Uz are becoming isolationist again and the Russians now have the gas pipelines into Western Europe with which to control & collect tribute disguised as tariffs......

If the US had just washed its hands of the Eastern Hemisphere, I suspect much/most of it would have rather quickly become Finlandized or worse: Azerbaijanized

One thing for sure, Middle East without American involvement would have been much better place ..

Maybe.... Maybe not.....

Hard to say given that the Muddle East oops I mean Middle East is such a Mess

Remembering that the Soviets initially backed Israel....

Also Arab/Muslim states like Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan......

Remembering how the KGB dealt with Muslim Militants in Lebanon who dared to kidnap Russian Diplomats by delivering the severed genitals of a brother of the head Muslim Miltant to him after he killed one of the diplomats... Suspect the Russians/Soviets might have been much more efficient in that department

Would have been interesting to see if the Russian Bears could have eaten the Afghan Hounds for breakfast if treacherous Afghan Hounds/Sons of Bitches hadn't been provided Stinger missiles by foolish Uz....

Israel would be now a refuge for world Jews running away from you guys

So you think that Russia would have maintained Israel........

Possible but I doubt it to a large degree... Stalin was about to do his own holocaust when he fortunately died.....
With less stress, he might have lasted longer.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

Much more likely is that more Jews would be in the Western Hemisphere...as others desiring a degree of freedom.....

therefore pushing USSR out of Iran was American responsibility and a closing chapter of WW2 ..

If we Uz were going just leave Europe to the mercy of the Russians/Soviets, I rather doubt that we would stand up to the Russians for Iran....

Maybe Churchill and the Brits would have tried (as they did in this timeline) but would they have succeeded without backing from Uz?

Bottom Line: Without the US/NATO, very possible that the Russian Soviet Empire is able to extract enough tribute from a Finlandized Europe, Azerbaijanized Middle East etc. to keep the Russian populace happy and thus the Soviet Union does not fall for a long time..... Socialist Imperialism succeeds.......

Not sure what happens to Uz, the Western Hemisphere and perhaps the Pacific Rim in this scenario......

Africa likely would have fallen to the Soviets except perhaps for nuclear South/Southern Africa ........

Quite possible/probable that there be would later conflict as Communism like Islam aims at Wold Domination

But the West possibly/probably would have been weaker.

Could the West hold out against the Greater Soviet Union with just nukes......

Especially with leaders like Carter & the current POTUS/GOLFTUS

What about the Wild Card of Space......... Remembering that the Soviets got quite a head-start on lazy Uz......

Which eventually we did overcome.........

Only to become lazy again with the Russians being now being the preeminent manned space flight capable nation..

Better one than none....

With all the Space Rocks out there and Depraved Sinful Egotistical Chaos Monkeys down here, I'm glad they seem to be doing Space more seriously than we are.......


*We American sometimes get isolationist..... There was pressure after WW2 to bring the Boyz home NOW! and leave the problematic European Euroz to their own devices...

Some Uz including the recently late Pete Seeger even liked bad old "Uncle Joe" Stalin quite a lot.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

We were there before.... Remember the Maine....'>>...........

".....The U.S. Navy had in commission over 600 vessels at the close of the American Civil War. Nearly all of the new ships were wartime purchases, hasty constructions, or made from unseasoned timber. After the war, most were sold off or destroyed. In spite of international crises such as the Virginius Affair in 1873, contention with Great Britain over the Alabama Claims, and problems with France over a projected canal in Panama, the strength of the navy continued to decline. By 1879 only forty-eight of the navy's 142 vessels were available for immediate service, and these were obsolete wooden or old ironclad ships. Naval technology had stagnated in the U.S., illustrated by the fact that there was not a single high-power, long-range rifled gun in the entire fleet. In 1884 the U.S. Navy's newest ships were wooden-hulled steam sloops built in the previous decade...."

[noddy]

i tend to agree with those that suggest that the drones will replace most of the fleshers for the cannon fodder jobs.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

'Cannon fodder' because....... not enuff prisons or factory jobs.....;P............



srry...... DPG moment there.......;>.............

[noddy]

'Cannon fodder' because....... not enuff prisons or factory jobs.....;P............



srry...... DPG moment there.......;>.............

=]

why cants they just keep it simple like the olden dayz!@$)!@*)$*!@$*!@)$*!@)$!@$*!$*!@$*!@$*!@$*!@$)

going to have to come up with a soma now, oh.... actually..

[Nonc Hilaire]

NSA/TSA/DHS personnel will more than compensate for overseas military downsizing. A financial shell game.

[Doc]

i tend to agree with those that suggest that the drones will replace most of the fleshers for the cannon fodder jobs.

The drones will finish off all the flesher cannon fodder. We are all civilian cannon fodder now.